Rhythms and Systems That Improve Your Worship Ministry

Alex | Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Worship Ministry Training Podcast, a monthly podcast for worship leaders and worship team members. My name is Alex and the agent your host. And if it’s your first time here, welcome. So happy that you are tuning in that you found us and just want to warmly welcome you to this family, this community of worship leaders from all over the world who are really actively working on improving themselves so that they can be a better leader for their Ministry. So welcome. What we do is every month I release one episode per month. That way you can really focus on what we’re talking about and apply it to your Ministry because it’s no good just gaining knowledge. If you don’t actually apply it, then nothing will change. And so we do one episode per month as in depth and as practical as possible. And we have different topics that we’ve covered over the last eight years. So if you’re new, subscribe to the podcast and then just go through the previous backlog the archive and scroll through all the past episodes from the past eight years and find the topics that are going to be helpful to you in the season of your Ministry, add them to your upcoming list on your podcast player and just binge listen.

Alex | And then go ahead and apply those principles to improve your Ministry in this month’s episode. It’s actually kind of a fun one. I’m the one being interviewed, and I’m being interviewed by Matt McCoy from Loop Community for the Loop Community Podcast. So why am I repurposing their podcast on this podcast? Well, it’s for two reasons. Number one, because Matt and I are going to be teaching together at a conference in October, October 10 and 11th, 2022. If you’re listening in the future in Chicago, and it’s going to be the Loop Community Worship Innovators Conference. And this is an amazing conference that’s going to help you improve and innovate in your Ministry. And I’ll be there teaching alongside of others from Worship Artistry from Loop Community, from Song, select CCLI from Worship Tutorials Planning Center Sunday Sounds Worship fails, tons of other great teachers and communicators and content creators that will be there. And so I would encourage you to come to this conference and you can sign up with early bird pricing by going to Worship Innovators.com. I would love to meet you in person. I actually have two free tickets to give away. So I’m going to give away one ticket to one person and one ticket to another person.

Alex | And how do you become that person that wins the tickets? Well, let me tell you. So if you’re interested in coming to the conference, if you live near Chicago, or if you’re willing to travel, then you can enter to get this free ticket. Don’t enter if you’re not going to actually seriously come to this conference. But if you’re interested, you can enter to get the free ticket by doing three simple steps. And probably the easiest thing for you to do is just to open the podcast notes of this episode on your podcast app because it has the three steps and it has links so that it’s easier for you to do these steps. But the first step to enter the contest to win the ticket is to sign up for my mailing list. And you can do that by going to worshipministrytraining comEmail. The second step is to leave a five star podcast review on Apple Podcast, and you can just click the link in your show notes to do that. Or if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, hopefully you know how to do that. And then the third step is to prove that you did those first two steps by emailing me a screenshot of your podcast review and letting me know which email you signed up for the email list with.

Alex | And that way I can verify. And I can email you at the end of the month when I pick the two winners. And I’ll also announce it on next month’s podcast. So go ahead and do that. If you want to come for free, do those three steps. Again, the easiest thing to do is probably just to open the podcast show notes and follow those three steps by clicking the links. All right. That’s the first reason why I’m repurposing this episode. The second reason why is just quite honestly, I’ve been crazy busy working on something super exciting. So for the last four months, I’ve been working on two different courses, the Copy Me course, which I’ve already talked about on the podcast. But also I just finished a 47 lesson course on musical excellence. So I have this super in depth course that will teach you all the factors that you need to know, all the things that go into making a team musically. Excellent. I teach you what those things are and how to work on each of those things, both in yourself and for your team. And so this is probably my best course yet.

Alex | It is 47 lessons. It is multiple hours of training, and it’s available in the other new thing that I’ve been working on behind the scenes, which is a brand new platform, a community and courses platform for worship leaders. So this is a platform where you get to not just study these courses. I have ten courses now in the platform. You don’t just get to study these courses, but you actually get to meet other worship leaders, intermingle with them, learn from them. There’s private chats, there’s forums, there’s group chats, there’s live video calls. There’s monthly live training sessions with me. You also get to join me live while I interview some of the best worship leaders in the world. You get to join me on the video call and submit your own questions for them to answer. So all of that, the brand new musical excellence course, plus all the other courses, plus all this community stuff that I’m talking about is going to be launching in mid June. And I’m Super excited. And I’m just giving you a heads up about it. And I’m also giving you a heads up that I will be giving early bird pricing for a limited time so you’ll get lifetime reduced pricing on this new platform.

Alex | So just put that on your mental notes map and just put it on your calendar. Mid June will be launching this thing, and you’ll be able to try it for free for ten days. And so super excited been super busy with all that. And that’s why I am taking this podcast interview from Lou Community’s Podcast and replaying it here. Plus, honestly, it’s good content. It’s important stuff. And so that’s enough introduction. Let’s just dive into this conversation that Matt had with me about building great systems and routines and rhythms for your Ministry. Hey, Matt.

Matt McCoy | Hey, man. So good to see you.

Alex | So good to see you, too. So stoked to be here with you and the people watching live and anyone listening after the fact. But thanks for having me.

Matt McCoy | Thanks for joining us. So tell us, what is Worship Ministry Training?

Alex | So Worship Ministry Training is a website and monthly podcast that I started eight years ago. It has grown into hopefully a very helpful, practical tool for worship leaders who literally just, like, got zero training. Most of us get thrown into worship Ministry because we’re musical, and now we find we have to be a leader, a theologian, a pastor, a shepherd. And we’re like, what? Like, I just play guitar and sing. That’s most of our stories, I think. So this is stepping into that gap and saying, here, let me give you the practical and helpful resources you need to actually lead a Ministry, because music is like 10% of what we do, right? There’s like 90% of what we do off the stage. And so this is giving you the tools both for on stage, but also all the behind the scenes leadership stuff. That’s what we do. And it’s a podcast, it’s courses, it’s ebooks, and a lot of it’s free.

Matt McCoy | That’s awesome, man. What a great tool. So why should worship pastors have administrative systems in place? That almost seems like kind of an obvious question, but a lot of worship pastors are so focused on the creative side that sometimes we kind of neglect the administrative side, and maybe it’s a decade that we’re not super strong. So why is it important to have these systems in place?

Alex | Yes, and I think a lot of worship leaders are like, I don’t even want to hear about administrative systems. They’re, like running in the operating direction. Yeah, boring. But I just want to set it up like this. If you’re listening to this and you lead a Ministry, I will strongly say this, and I’m proud to say this you cannot have a healthy Ministry without good administrative systems. I truly believe that unless you build a solid, stable, reliable rhythm of a Ministry, it’s just going to be chaos. It’s going to be hectic. People are going to be frustrated. You’re going to be frustrated. And so I think it’s really a selfish answer. But how much do you want to actually enjoy your life? How much do you actually want to enjoy your Ministry? How much do you actually want your team members to have an enjoyable experience? I think setting up a strong, stable Ministry, like rhythms and patterns and routines and systems and structures, it’s vital for health. But you can’t have anything healthy if you don’t have stability, like families can’t be healthy if they’re not stable. Governments can’t be healthy if society is not stable, nothing grows upon instability.

Alex | And so our job as worship leaders is to do what God did, which in Genesis, God brought order out of chaos, and he created this stable, beautiful, comfortable environment where humans couldn’t thrive and flourish. Right. And as leaders, we’re supposed to mimic our God, and we’re supposed to bring order out of chaos to create a stable environment where people can thrive and flourish and have an enjoyable experience. And if we don’t provide that for people, if it’s chaotic every week, if we’re last minute texting people to try to get our band together, we haven’t picked the set. We’re printing chord charts as people are arriving to rehearsal and the stage is a mess. And it’s not set up. It’s not ready for them. People are not going to actually come back because they’re like, why am I going to give my time, my energy to this place that’s wasting my time and energy? I’m not going to volunteer. And so then there’s this vicious cycle. Now you don’t have enough people on your team. So anyway, it all goes back to my first statement. You can’t have a healthy Ministry without stability.

Matt McCoy | Yeah. Because then you end up even more stressed out and fatigued. It really causes fatigue on volunteers when things are chaotic. I totally agree with you on that. If you don’t have the set list together, if you’re calling them last minute, it just slowly kind of eats away at a volunteer where they’re just like, this is exhausting. And I don’t think I can even do this right.

Alex | And I would even add, like, if every week all of your energy is going to putting out fires and managing chaos, then you have zero energy and time left to actually build the things that you want to build and do the things that you want to do. If every week it’s just managing chaos and putting out fires, you can’t sung, right? You can’t do discipleship because it’s so chaotic. So why not just build a system in place that just works every week works every month, and you can focus your energy and attention and time on things that you actually want to do, things that are actually going to move the Ministry forward. So that’s why I think it matters.

Matt McCoy | So what kind of systems can a worship leader put into place?

Alex | Yeah, I mean, there are lots of different systems and structures. I think what’s helpful is to think of it in terms of rhythms and systems. So rhythms and systems. Rhythms are doing the right things at the right time and systems are doing those things in the right way. And so we can talk about both of those. But basically, rhythms are when you do certain things and systems are how you do certain things. And you can build, like I said, a rhythm and a system for pretty much anything in your Ministry. And I’ll give you a few real life examples in a second. But I think the most important question to answer before you build any rhythm or system is what are you trying to accomplish? Like, what is the outcome that you desire for your Ministry? And once you have that outcome in mind, you can work backwards. You can reverse engineer your system and your rhythms to get you towards that outcome. For example, let’s say you really want your worship team this year to become more of a family. Okay? That’s the desired outcome. So what do I need to do every single week to actually make that happen?

Alex | Like, what are the tasks that need to go on my calendar to move me towards that desired outcome? So once you have that outcome, then you can build a rhythm or a system for that. And I like to say this, Matt. I like to say if you do the right things at the right time, you’ll get the right results. Right. And I might even add, if you do the right things at the right time in the right way, you’ll get the right results. But some examples. To answer your question now, sorry for that long tangent, but an example would be like scheduling. Right? Like when do you schedule do you have a set time to schedule your team every month? For me, it’s like the 26th of every month I send out the block out dates. On the 26th of the month, it could be 25th, 27, it doesn’t matter. But around that time window every month I do that. And then three days later, after everybody blocks out their dates on planning Center, I build the schedule and I send the request. Right. So having that just pattern because Ministry is a pattern. Like Sunday’s coming every week.

Alex | So why not set up your week so that you do the same things on the same day every week? And it’s not like you’re reinventing the wheel each time, right? So for me, Monday mornings I schedule my sets, Monday afternoons I send my set notes to my team for that upcoming Sunday. And it’s like a pattern. It’s a habit. I don’t have to think about when am I going to send my set notes to? It’s just like, no, every Monday. So that’s the rhythm side of things. If you want to stop and ask questions, we can stop there or I can talk about the system side, too.

Matt McCoy | I feel like that’s such a good point that rhythms and the tools are very different because you have to have the rhythm, you have to set aside the time to actually get the specific task done. And I love what you’re saying about you. Just choose, hey, on Monday, I’m doing my sets. Tuesdays are getting the core charts together. Wednesdays is rehearsal. You set a rhythm. Now the tools you use to actually do those things. I’m sure we’re going to talk about that in a second. There’s a lot of tools out there. What would you say? I think the rhythm, though, might actually be the hardest thing for worship pastors to set because the tools are awesome. There’s so many tools out there that make the actual planning part of it easy, but it’s almost the self discipline part of setting those rhythms that seems to be difficult. Do you have any tips for worship leaders who maybe have a harder time setting those disciplines and those rhythms? How do you get started doing that?

Alex | Well, a couple of things come to mind. One, you definitely have to see why it matters. So all the stuff we just talked about, hopefully that convinces you that like, yeah, gosh, I really got to stop managing chaos and just build a structure for my routines every week because like I said, Sunday is always coming. It’s not like there’s any surprises. So why don’t you just get on the front end and get ahead? I think one thing that might be helpful, I can share my screen. Matt, I actually have a free Ministry calendar for worship leaders. It’s a Ministry calendar template that you can take and you can literally borrow, steal, tweak and use for your own Ministry that I have, like, weekly tasks. And I would categorize those as, like, service related tasks. Right. And here’s what you should do. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday. That’s my schedule. Obviously, my schedule and my routines and my tasks are going to look slightly different. But worship Ministry is the same in most churches. So this is your weekly schedule, your monthly tasks. I would categorize them as team maintenance tasks. That would be things like scheduling and taking people out to coffee once a month and sending a heartfelt thank you message to the team.

Alex | Like little things that you want to do every month to do team maintenance. Then you have, like, quarterly type activities, team building things like mini golfing with your team, musical training workshops, biannual annual. So I can give access to this. In fact, if anyone listening or watching wants it, they can just go to worship Ministry training. Comresources that page is all full of free resources. They can put their email in, and this Ministry calendar template will get sent to them, I think, within three days. And so if they want it, they can grab that. I also have an actual calendar view of what to do, and then the color coding is I know I’m a geek, right? But I want to be helpful. That’s why I make these things easy to understand. So color coding for weekly versus quarterly versus monthly versus. So either of these are available. If you just go to worshipmaster training. Comresources, they can grab that. And hopefully that will help them get a good head start on how they can structure their time maps. So does that kind of answer the question?

Matt McCoy | Totally.

Alex | Yeah.

Matt McCoy | This is super helpful. So let’s talk about the tools. So what types of systems can be put in place? We’re not talking about rhythms now.

Alex | Okay. Yeah. So a system is how you do something, right? So I think gosh, well, we can talk about tools or we can talk about systems, and then we can talk about tools because like you said, it doesn’t really matter what tool a worship leader prefers. Like, what calendar app do they want to use? I don’t care. Like, whatever they like, what task management after they want to use, what project management do they want to share with their other worship staff or worship volunteers? Asana?

Matt McCoy | Tick, tick.

Alex | I mean, who cares? Whatever you guys like. The point is not the tool, although we can talk about tools and I can show you guys what I use. But the point is designing everything to function smooth for you and for your volunteers. But in terms of the systems, I would say you should have a system for how to audition people. Like, what are your ABCD EFG steps? When someone comes up to you after service and says, hey, I’ve played on Worship Team before. How do I get involved if you have to reinvent that process every time for every new person who comes to you, like you’re just doing extra work, why not dial it in, figure it out and say, this is how we audition people, or this is how we onboard a new team member after they get approved to be part of the team. These are the training resources we have for them. This is what we want them to do. This is what we want them to read. This is what we want them to watch because we want to set them up for success. Right. All of this is an act of service that you would do.

Alex | You can even have a system for how you organize your backstage area and hang your microphone cable so that you don’t have to look for the 20 footer when you need it really quickly. Right. So you can design a system around anything. It’s just about doing the work once, doing it well, and then you don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time, right?

Matt McCoy | Yeah, that’s so good. What are some of the best ways that worship leaders can actually introduce these systems to their teams?

Alex | I saw this question beforehand, and I was thinking about it, and it’s like, honestly, it’s not even really something that the team members have to participate in. It’s something that is our responsibility as the shepherd of the team to develop the rhythms and the systems. Like, your team is just the beneficiary of the rhythm in the system that you put in place. You’re doing the work, they’re reaping the reward. Right. And so I don’t think there’s a lot that your team members really have to do. The only one that comes to my mind is, like scheduling. My team members need to cooperate with me in scheduling. Right. And so for me, it’s about training. And when you onboard, a new team member and I can share my screen and show you a bit of our onboarding process for our Church. I work at Calvary Chapel South Bay in Los Angeles, and we’ve put together, like, an onboarding little web thing. And honestly, I can give all these links to you guys, and you guys can copy them and steal and borrow. I don’t care. Actually, Matt, I know this episode is live right now, but I’m not sure when the audio is going to be releasing.

Alex | But in about a month and a half, I’ll be releasing a brand new course on my website called the Copy Me Course, where I literally show you every single thing I do to make my Ministry work, from set building to scheduling to how I chop songs for Ableton to all of that. So that will be if they want that, they can go to worshipministrytraining.com, and it’ll be up live in February. So in the middle of March, it should be live. But right now, I can give access to all of these things to your listeners, to your viewers. If you want, I can share the screen and I can show you a little bit of our audition process at our Church. So this is an example of a system. And Matt, stop me if I’m going in a direction you don’t want me to go down that street.

Okay.

Alex | So basically, when somebody comes up to me after service and says, hey, I want to play on your team, I say, great, here’s my email address. Please email me. That’s the first step in my process because I want to see if they have the initiative and if they’re responsible enough to actually follow through. So I put the ball in their court like, okay, if this person can’t email me, how can I expect them to prepare their guitar parts? Right? Yeah. First they email me, then I would send them this link, and it just explains, hey, we’re looking for people who are committed to this local fellowship, who live a lifestyle that honors Christ and who are skilled in their craft of musicianship. And there’s a full expectations document that we want them to read right here. Your viewers and listeners can have this document as well. It says, basically, not everybody’s guaranteed to get a spot on the team. We want to partner with you to help you find the best spot. But then there’s like a four step process for the singers. We define clearly. We only audition singers who can sing harmony. So we won’t even audition you if you can’t sing harmony.

Alex | Like, we’re not trying to be mean. It’s just something that is needed at our Church. So they click this folder, there’s some MP3 and some charts in there. They film themselves singing the harmonies to those songs, and they upload them to this Dropbox file here. And then I follow up with feedback that’s the first thing I do is I give feedback. I don’t even say yes or no. I just say, hey, here’s what I saw that was good. Here’s a few areas that I want you to work on. And the reason I do the feedback immediately is because I want to initiate that coaching relationship with them right from the outset. And then we move from there into the audition, like in person audition, if they have the ability to if I think their video is close enough to where they need to be. So that is our system for auditioning. Now I can’t remember what your exact question was. Matt, please.

Matt McCoy | No, this is great. Keep walking through it.

Alex | Okay. So if they get on the team, you really want to begin onboarding them. And onboarding means helping them understand your culture, your values, your vision for your team, and just kind of the expectations of what it means to be on the team. I’m not going to open the web page here, but there are web pages that explain our values. And I also give them these sheets in person as well. And then once they talk through that, we begin the training process. So the training process, I send them some links, and it just explains what we’re looking for in an electric guitar player. Like, we’re not looking for a shredder. We’re looking for someone with a modern contemporary style that uses influences like You Two and Coldplay for inspiration. And it goes into more detail there. And then I watch these following online guitar courses. These are free online guitar courses that I found that are good. And I’m like, watch this. And then I have some examples of YouTube videos of great guitar tutorials for modern worship songs. So I have one for guitar for bass. But first of all, you want to set the expectation for what you’re looking for so they know how to succeed.

Alex | The key to being a great leader is to provide clarity. And so your job is to give clarity for what you’re looking for in an electric guitar player in a bass player in a singer. And that’s like the online training portion. I’m just sharing what our process is because this is a system that we’ve built to get a good result. And then we begin scheduling them for in person training. And for that we schedule them as a training position in Planning Center. And then they show up and they shadow whatever position that they’re supposed to be playing. So they’ll watch the bass player with inner monitors. They’ll hear what we’re hearing, they’ll hang out with the team, they’ll spend time with us.

Matt McCoy | Let me ask you this. Let’s just say you set up a system. Maybe it’s how you hang your cords in the back room or where you put your in your monitors when you’re done with your inner monitor pack. Or maybe it’s how rehearsal flows or how sound check flows. Like you’re setting up these systems. What do you do if there is resistance to the systems? So if there’s somebody on your team that just will not abide by your system, like maybe they won’t. How about this one? You’re using a planning tool like Planning Center, and this person just refuses to accept invites in Planning Center. They just want to text you or something else. I don’t know.

Alex | Yes. This is the great, beautiful part of being a pastor in Ministry as you have to deal with difficult people. Right. How would you handle that if you had a team member who refused to show up prepared, or what would you do?

Matt McCoy | I would probably take them out to coffee and vision cast for them about why we do what we do, why we have a system in place that it’s there to help them. It’s there to help everybody. And I would just tell them actually very straightly that it would really help us if you would click Accept in the email when we send it to you or decline, but just use the email that we send you because that would really help so that we can really focus on other parts of Ministry instead of having to Hunt you down.

Alex | Right? Yeah. Matt, you’re so right on. It’s about that relational. It’s not like you’re going to sledge them with a sledgehammer and like you’re off the team. That is not the way Jesus operates, right? He’s full of Grace and truth. He’s long suffering. And so we want to be long suffering, but we also have to be full of Grace and truth. And the truth is, if you want to be part of this team, the reason this team operates so well is because people are doing what needs to be done for the good of the team. And so it’s just about having those conversations. But here’s what I always tell people. You can’t have those conversations down the line if you didn’t set the expectation up front. So that’s why the on boarding process is so important. Here’s what we expect from our team. Here’s what it means to be part of the team. So anybody who joins our team, I walk through all of this with them and say at the end of the month, I’m going to be scheduling out or sending out block out dates. I need you guys to block out dates.

Alex | And here’s the truth, Matt. You know, this volunteers are volunteers. And so sometimes they’re just wiggly and they don’t conform. And that’s why as a leader, our job is to constantly reiterate, constantly reiterate the same thing over and over. I can tell you every month I say the same thing. Please block out dates for our schedule. We’re going to schedule in three days really helps us. If you block out your dates, please block out your dates. And then when I send a schedule, please accept or decline within three days. First of all, they shouldn’t even be declining because hopefully they followed the instruction to block out dates and I didn’t schedule them. This is all in planning center, by the way, if people are wondering what does block out dates mean? But planning center is a huge part of my workflow, and I’m sure many other worship leaders, I’m constantly asking them, like, please accept or decline within three days so we can move forward with this scheduling. So it’s a pain. But welcome to leadership, right? I mean, gosh, how many times does God need to tell us the same thing over and over and over before we start to slowly, slightly conform?

Matt McCoy | And it’s the pastoral element of being a worship pastor. This has been a rough couple of years, I feel like, for churches and worship leaders and worship team members, not being able to be in Church with covet and people are feeling, I think, more isolated than ever. And I’m curious, is there any sort of structure or system that you’ve seen put into place that helps encourage health and stability to your worship team? And maybe it’s even just the pastoral part that we’re talking about. Like, is there a system in place where maybe it’s not just all about the music, but it’s also about the people?

Alex | Okay. Yeah, that’s good. Well, in that first screen, share with the rhythm list, there are very relational tasks, if you want to call them tasks in that list of what you should probably be doing every month to continue to connect with your team. So, like, today at 345, I’m taking a guy out to coffee. I try to do it like once a month. It doesn’t always happen. But with shepherding the larger team, there are spiritual practices that you can do to create stronger disciples of Jesus. And sorry to keep plugging stuff, but all these free resources, I literally have one of the emails that you’ll get is five free ideas for discipling your team. And I can just share what they are right now. But one of them is a prayer partner program. So you can just literally every month pair up your two guys and two girls, and then you pair up your whole team two by two, just like going into the arc. Just kidding. And two by two, you pair them up guy, guy, girl, girl. And you say, hey, your job, guys, is to pray for each other every day and call each other once a week.

Alex | And you do that for two months. They get to know each other, they get to pray for each other. And that weekly phone call check up. Now, not everybody on your team is going to do it, but some of them will and the overall team will be stronger for it. And then after two months, you switch partners and you do it again. That’s a little simple system that you can put in place. Another one would be, hey, guys, this month we’re going to do this Bible reading plan on the Bible app together, and we’re going to read it every day. And then on the 7th day, we’ll do a group text about what stuck out to us. Right. So that’s something you can do, or even in between services. Like what we try to do is we try to discuss the pastor’s sermon with our team every week. So those are just a few ideas for just little rhythms that you can put in place that are going to help your team spiritually develop. But I don’t know, Matt, you would agree everything in life is a habit. Like, I choose to try to exercise five days a week, right?

Alex | I choose to try to read my Bible every day. I choose to try to read a book that’s going to help me grow every day. You just build these systems into your life and you get healthy. The same thing is true for your Ministry, right?

Matt McCoy | Yeah, I completely agree. There’s a lot of really great tools on the site. Men worship Ministry training. Thanks for joining us. Is there anywhere else you want to direct people to to find you to sign up?

Alex | I’m not on any social really personally, but worship Ministry training is everywhere, although I’m not really even that big on social. The website is the best worship ministrytraining.com there’s, free resources if they want to get signed up for all those emails that I was talking about, worshipmistrytraining. Comresources, those are all free. The podcast obviously is free. I also have free courses there. And then I do have paid courses for set building, team building, stage leadership, like increasing Congregational engagement and a couple of others.

Matt McCoy | And we’re running out of time here, but I want everybody to go check out worship ministrytraining.com, worship ministrytraining.com, go get these free resources. I’m actually going to go check it out right after this conversation because it sounds like you have tons of free guides on there, which is such a cool opportunity and tool. So, Alex, thanks for joining us on the show today.

Alex | Thanks, Matt. It’s been awesome. Two in a row. We got to hang out twice.

Matt McCoy | I know, man. It’s good. We’ll talk to you soon.

Alex | Thanks.

Matt McCoy | Bye.

Alex | All right. That’s it for this month’s episode. I hope you were encouraged and helped buy it. Also want to remind you if you’d like to get that free ticket for the worship innovators conference go ahead and open the show notes of your podcast app. Follow the three steps to enter the contest and hopefully you will win a free ticket to the worship innovators conference in October and also be on the lookout for the brand new worship Ministry training platform with the courses in the community and all that great stuff that I talked about in the intro. So that’s it for this month. I hope you are helped and encouraged. If you want to help me you can leave a five star review. Send this on to another worship leader who you think needs to hear it but just help get the word out. But thank you guys for being part of this family, this community and I’ll see you next month for another helpful episode.