Navigating Ministry Transitions w: Mack Brock

At some point in your ministry life you will transition out of your current role and into something new. Whether you are switching churches, or just changing roles within the same church, you will need some wisdom to guide you through that process. Thankfully, others have gone before you and can offer guidance. Mack Brock, the renowned songwriter, producer, and worship leader for Evelation Worship, recently transitioned off of staff at Elevation Church and into a new season of ministry. We discuss how to know whether your season is coming to a close, how to wade through deceiving emotions, how to discern God’s will, how to be in one accord with your family, how to honor your leadership through the process, and more. Also be sure to check out this episode: HOW TO LEAVE YOUR CHURCH WELL for more practical advice during this crucial time.

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Alex Enfiedjian 00:09 Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the worship ministry training podcast. If you’re new to the podcast, we release one new episode per month. And we always try to make them as topical and in depth in nature as possible. The goal is to build a massive online archive of highly topical highly practical episodes that will help you in a specific area of worship ministry. So dig through the episode list if you’re new and check out all the topics we’ve covered so far. Today, I have the privilege of talking with Mac Brock, who was one of the main worship leaders and songwriters for elevation worship, Mac recently transitioned off staff at elevation. And so I decided to talk with him about how to navigate big ministry transitions. You know, we will all go through some sort of ministry transition at some point in our life. And so if it’s not current for you Now, listen to the episode because you’ll need the information later. But we talked about how to know whether it’s time to leave church or not how to discern God’s will in that how to be in one accord with your family as you navigate this process, how to honor your leadership while you’re leaving, and more. And Mack was very transparent and helpful. In this episode. I also want to tell you about an episode we did about three years ago called How to leave your church well, which also fits well into this theme. So I will link that episode in the show notes for your further listening. Before we get into the podcast, I want to tell you about our recommended product this month, which is core sound pads. Core sound makes the best sounding backing pads on the market. They have a wide variety of sounds to choose from in all the major and minor keys, you can play the pads from their app, it’s free to try the app is called pads live. You can play them right from your iPhone, or your iPad. Or you can even download the mp3 or WAV files and load them into the software of your choice. And the pads really fill out the sound of your band and create a lush soundscape. They smooth out the transitions, they kill the awkward silence, they are truly remarkable, and I use them every single time I play a worship set, you can try them for free. And if you decide to purchase them, you can use the promo code WM t podcast at checkout to save 20% on your purchase. All the links are in the show notes. So be sure to check them out and strengthen the sound of your team. Alright, with that, let’s jump into our episode with Mac Brock. Everybody I am here with the one and only Mac Brock Mac, thanks for being on the podcast. It’s good to be here. Awesome. So Mac, you recently transitioned out of your role at elevation church as one of the main worship leaders and into a new season. And I’ve had several worship leader friends who have recently transitioned from one church to another or from one season to another season and and those transitional times can be super confusing and difficult and kind of feel like, like you’re dying and being reborn. And so I would love for you to share with some of our listeners who maybe they’re feeling like their season is coming to an end or they’re not sure. And just kind of how you walked through that transitional time. So maybe we could start with just kind of how did you know that your time and elevation was coming to a close? Like how did you know that it was the Lord and not like some bad pizza that you ate? You know,

Mack Brock 03:20 right? You know, anytime you’re wrestling, for any sort of like major decision, it really is hard to know, like is this actually like from the Lord. And so I think like one of the first things that was important to me and my wife was just patience in the process. And it was a lot of prayer. And a lot of sitting and conversing with each other and fasting together. We did a lot of that, you know, a feeling like we want to go into this like prayer journey, very focused. And so for us, I think patience in the process is so key because a lot of times if you’re in a situation, you know, you might be in a healthy situation and feel like the Lord might be calling you out. And you need to pray through like all the things that you might feel like the Lord is putting on your heart. You might be like in an unhealthy situation or just a situation that’s like not like totally, like aligned with your preferences. Like a lot of times that will lead to making like an emotional decision, you know, and our emotions are often liars. And our emotions are often misleading. The patient’s aspect is very, very important to us. We took our time we sought wisdom. We really like dug into just what the Lord says in Scripture. And when we dug into seeking counsel from people that we trusted their relationship with the Lord, we trusted their kind of their wisdom over our lives. And so it was a long process for us. But then ultimately I think like when you feel that peace is hard, you know it was extremely difficult for us to transition office like a church staff. We have been at Elevation for 10 years. Yours, and we loved it. And we love the people there. And so to come to this place that feeling like our assignments done, we’re supposed to move on with extremely difficult for us. But as soon as we felt, you know, me and my wife as like a couple felt like the peace of the Lord releasing us, we knew that it was safe to start stepping into that.

Alex Enfiedjian 05:22 You talked about like patience. So how long did this from the first premonition to the time that you actually left staff? How long did that take? And? And what was the initial kind of like kickoff, I feel something in my spirit changing? What was it,

Mack Brock 05:37 it’s gonna look different for everybody. For me, it honestly started with more of like a in my relationship with the Lord and like the conversations I was having with him. I felt like him asking me, if I asked you to let this go with you. It wasn’t like, Hey, I’m gonna prepare you to leave. It wasn’t anything like that to begin with, it was more so like, this is something that you love. And this is, you know, something that’s great. If I asked you to move on from this, would you be able to do it. And my initial response was, like, very tight fisted, and very much like, non good. I like being here. And I don’t need, you know, there’s nothing else that I really want to do. So thanks for asking, but I’m fine. And, and it really did become like a wrestling match. In a lot of ways. That’s when I would bring in my wife in the process. And we talked about it. And I don’t know, it’s hard to say like how long the time was, you know, because it wasn’t necessarily like, this is like the start of the journey for us to transition office staff. It was more so like, this is the start of the journey of just like having a conversation with the Lord, you know, maybe like two years before we left staff of just having that conversation. And it was it. I don’t know, that doesn’t represent like me, I was checked out, you know, for the next two years or anything like that. It was more so just like, that was like a very initial early conversation I was having with God. And then it led to a lot of other wrestling.

Alex Enfiedjian 07:00 Yeah, it sounds like an Isaac situation. Like I lay this on the altar and stab it in the chest. No, I don’t want to Lord. Right. So I wouldn’t compare myself to that. But yeah. You have the faith of a right. Yeah. So you talked about the sense of peace, you felt like a sense of release, I guess, because I know, in my transitions, it’s been like, there’s been tension that’s built up. And it’s internal tension, it might be external tension. Not that like you’re running away from problem, or I was running from problems, sometimes God uses circumstances to direct our paths. And, and sometimes he uses uncomfortable ness to, you know, move us on, but sometimes he just like you puts a premonition in our heart. And then you wrestle with them. And then there’s this release period, at least in my life, where it’s like, Whoa, I have to go like to be obedient to Christ. Like, I have to step into the next reading. So did you sense that sort of release that I’m talking about? And what was that like, for you guys? Like when did you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, like, we got to do this?

Mack Brock 08:00 Yeah, the obedience thing is like key, one way to look at it is like stepping out in faith. And I think that that’s an accurate description. But I think another like, way to say it is like stepping out in obedience, you know, and those might be considered like one in the same. But for us, it felt very much more so like, an obedience thing to like, obeying the Lord’s prompting, the biggest indicator for us. And for me, is because I was on the journey, like with my wife, and so having that other voice, you know, and that other kind of, we’re one unit, and we’re able to, you know, we pray together, we fast together, and we talk about what the Lord is doing together. And so when we both felt like, I feel released, you know, and I and we felt the same thing, when we moved to Charlotte to be a part of elevation, we went through the same process of like, Hey, I don’t know if we’re supposed to do this go be a part of this, like new church, um, you know, leave all of our friends but we prayed about it, we’ve asked it about it, and we both came to the same conclusion of like, yeah, like I do feel this is the right move for us. And this is where we’re supposed to go. And so having, you know, if you’re married, having that connection with your spouse and having those very open honest conversations is like key. And if you’re not married, I think it really is important like to surround yourself with people that like I said, that you do trust. I think the other thing though, going back to what I was saying about the emotional you know how our emotions can like get in the way I do hear what you’re saying about you know, sometimes like a bad situation is like it can lead you like lead your path, but there’s a lot of times that a bad situation is mostly just maybe like an emotional situation. You know, like your might be like angry, you’re pissed off about a certain decision or maybe your preferences are getting overlooked or something, whatever it might be, and at any job corporate at any job in a church. You’re gonna have those moments, you know, where you can be in the healthiest situation, but still have these moments of like, wow, like that really hurt my feelings. I don’t agree with this. And it’s so easy for us because we’re, it’s like human nature to want to like knee jerk response to our emotions. And so with being patient in the process that kind of like removes a little bit of the emotion out of it. I’ve been in several situations in my life where something might happen, and I’ll be like, that’s it, I don’t need this anymore, I’m quitting, or, you know, or whatever. Yeah. And I have always been able to kind of take a breath, you know, step back from myself realize, like, my emotions are like, not the truth right now. They’re just the way I feel, you know, and that’s not God. And so being able to kind of, like, be aware of that, to have a little bit of self awareness of like, your emotions is really helpful. Because it allows, I don’t know, working through that was like one of the biggest things because like, then by the time it came to a point where where we did feel like a piece, and like a release, we knew it wasn’t based out of any sort of emotional reaction. It wasn’t based off of anything other than our prayer life. Really. That’s when it felt like, yeah, we can do this. And this is really scary for us. And this isn’t even like, I don’t know, and in a lot of ways, it wasn’t even like the desire of our heart to do that. But we did feel like a peace and a release. So we stepped into it.

Alex Enfiedjian 11:34 Yeah, I think that’s probably, you know, a prophetic word for someone listening who’s wanting to quit. And it’s really just, you know, their own emotions, or maybe the enemy discouraging them because God has good things for them in the future at that church, but they’re wanting to leave, you know, maybe it’s a Monday morning, and they’re feeling burnt out. And they’re feeling like oh, my gosh, nobody appreciates me and, and I love what you’re saying you’re encouraging people don’t quit, don’t make a hasty decision. hasty decision is almost never a good decision. And so I think that’s great advice for someone listening right now, that

Mack Brock 12:04 just is feeling discouraged. So yeah, and I was, I was reading my Bible this morning, Joshua, and I was reading the story about them walking around the walls of Jericho. And I always think now, when I read that story about what it was like, On the sixth day, that they were walking, you know, or the fifth day, they’ve been walking, this is like, the fifth and sixth day straight. We’ve been walking around these walls, this is what the Lord told us. We haven’t seen anything happened. This is very frustrating, and very annoying. And I’m starting to doubt whether, you know, I’m supposed to do this anymore, or whether I’m supposed to be here anymore. And it wasn’t until that seventh day, and then the seventh time of the seventh day, that they finally like, had that breakthrough. That can translate in so many areas of our life. But I think it really can translate like in our, I guess, like the vocational part of our lives to that. We just have to dig down, look past what’s right in front of us, because we know like we’re being obedient to what the Lord has told us to do in that moment.

Alex Enfiedjian 13:06 Hmm, yeah, so good. You know, you talked about having your wife’s voice help you in this discernment process. But you also talked about other people’s voices. So like, and you said godly people that you trust, Who were some of those people, and then maybe also talk about, like, how early Did you tell the leadership at elevation church that you were starting to think about these things? Because I think one of the fears is, Oh, my gosh, if I tell my boss, he’s gonna fire me. You know, hopefully, nobody works in a church like that. But I know it happens. So who are these other voices? And then how early Did you bring the leadership of elevation into your discernment process?

Mack Brock 13:41 I have a lot of people in my life that you know, are just like good, godly people, that mentors and people that I trust their instinct, and I trust their relationship with the Lord. And I know that they are close to God. And it was like, early on that I would bring people in that I was saying, like, Hey, I’m kind of like wrestling with this or you know, I don’t really know what this means something that I feel like, in my time with the Lord, this is something that I feel like he’s like, pressing on me, can you help processes with me? You know, I can you pray about this with me. And then you know, having conversations with my leadership at elevation and just kind of just share it a little bit of like, this is some some of the stuff that like I’m wrestling with, and I’m like, kind of pressing into and I don’t really know what, what it means or what you know, but this is something that I’m going through. And so it is so important, my dad’s a pastor as well. And so him and my mom are you know, I’m close to them and kind of bring them along in on the journey but also had like outside voices as well that were just that I could just rely on to pray with me to have people know when I say trust, it’s not like to trust because it’s like a secret, but it’s more so like, I just trust that like when you say that you’re gonna pray through this with me like I trust that you will. When I say like, I want to hear like your perspective like biblical perspective. I trust your relationship with the Lord to be able to give me wise sound advice? Hmm,

Alex Enfiedjian 15:08 that’s good. Yeah. And I think for whatever it’s worth it for whoever’s listening, like, one thing. I don’t know if you found this MAC, but like, sharing those things with people who have a vested interest in the outcome of the situation sometimes can be really confusing, because they’re going to potentially if they’re, I don’t know, you know, everyone’s sinful and sorry, yeah, exactly. And I’ve had that experience where I was like, you know, I really feel the Lord is leading my family to do this. And the people that I was telling were like, absolutely not. The Lord needs you here. You need to stay here. He created you for this specific congregation, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, Whoa, like, I’m hearing two conflicting things from the Lord and from this person or group of people? If so, I think sometimes finding a neutral party to talk to you who has no vested interest in the outcome. That’s the best place to get wisdom, I think, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I want to talk about like, what are some of the things you did to leave? Well, to honor your leadership in the transition? What did you do or not do to really leave? Well,

Mack Brock 16:11 I mean, I don’t feel like I’m an expert. You know, I don’t I think just being open and honest. Like with your leadership is like, so key, you know, and I’m trying to think like, I

Alex Enfiedjian 16:22 cuz I mean, the ministry was pretty well established, like it had a good system, it had everything. The structure was there, it wasn’t like you needed to, like, get your ducks in a row. Was it kind of an easy exit? You didn’t need to do all sorts of things. Yeah.

Mack Brock 16:35 I mean, there was some of that though, there was there was some of that, like, making sure that just like, you know, from a tangible responsibility level, like making sure that, that things were prepared for like when I stepped out, but that’s kind of something that I think I’ve like, always just tried to do in general, as a leader in church, like you try to multiply yourself, and you try to make sure you’re not the only person that can do this one thing in general. And so when it did come time, for us to just like, step out, I didn’t feel like there was a lot for me to do to get my ducks in a row. Because I’ve been doing that for several years, you know, like other people carry responsibilities, like with me, but you know, I think just like, honor, the season that you were in an honor, you know, as hard as it was for us to like, step out, there’s still so much like, positivity, and so much like me and my wife talk often just about, like, just how special our time was at elevation and how important that was to like our family and our marriage, and just everything that’s like really important for us to like, continue to like, just like acknowledge the journey that we’ve been on.

Alex Enfiedjian 17:45 Yeah, it sounds like it was a really special time people that you really loved. And were super close with, like, because I know, I’ve wrestled with this. And I think others do that leave their churches, did you ever feel like the hero complex of like, this person needs me? How are they going to function without me? And what about this young young man? I’m discipling? And like, I don’t know, do you want to talk about that at

Mack Brock 18:05 all? Yeah, I mean, I think that that is like, you know, a natural ego thing that happens to us just as like, people is like, we love to be needed. And we love to be important. And that’s like a natural, like wrestling thing, you know, but I learned early on, like, just how that wasn’t even something that I could like, try to grasp, you know, and you might have like, sparks of like, quick, like emotion or that quick thing, like in your spirit where you’re just like, like I want to be needed, and I want them to, I don’t know, whatever it might be, you got to quickly, like get that out of the way, you know, one like it’s just like, not Kingdom minded to think like that, like at all. But also like, it’s not beneficial to you. It’s not beneficial to them. And so as much as I could, I don’t know, just like be a champion of everybody that’s still there and still doing the things that I was a part of, like, I try to be that champion for them and try to pray for them and cheer them on. And that really curbs a lot of like the ego part of it.

Alex Enfiedjian 19:11 Yeah, so that’s kind of the transition out of let’s talk a little bit about the transition into something new. Like you’re uprooting, you didn’t move from the city or anything. Did you know we’re still in Charlotte. Okay, so your kids are still in the same school and your wife still has the same friends? Well, that’s good. Okay. That makes it a little bit easier. So then let’s talk about transition into like something new, like how unknown was your future when you said, Okay, we’re going to step out and we’re going to go wherever the Lord leads us, was it completely unknown?

Mack Brock 19:41 It was very, very unknown. We didn’t know if we weren’t going to move or if we were going to, you know, if I needed to, you know, step into like a different church role or anything like that, like we really didn’t know. Again, like going back to the patient’s thing we tried to just be patient and be, be close to the Lord and kind of walk In whatever like, path he was lighting up for us. And so we’re very much still, in the season of God is like a lamp unto our feet, just like one step in front of the other. And it’s been good. You know, it’s been like an amazing journey for us as a family. Like, it’s been an amazing thing for like me and my wife to walk in that together, because we’re both planners, we like to know, what’s happening five years down the road. And we’re goal oriented, and we want to, like push forward and all that stuff. And, and all of that is like, so good. And and I think is like healthy. But that’s not our reality right now. It’s more so. Alright, navigating one day at a time and navigating one month at a time and then figuring out okay, what are we doing now? Where are we going? And it’s been? You know, it’s been a fun process for us. Yeah. Has it been relaxing at all? I would not call it relaxed. No. plan or the opposite word that I would use? No, it has been peaceful, though. You know, there’s a lot of stress that comes along with unknown. And it’s very easy to get anxious. And sometimes I have spikes of that. But for the most part, there’s just like a just a sense of peace and grace over our family. And so we can kind of trust in that.

Alex Enfiedjian 21:19 Yeah. Two more quick questions about the transition. Were there any specific promises of God that you really held on to during that time, even if they’re not like specific verses, but just like general concepts?

Mack Brock 21:31 I don’t know. I don’t think I thought of it in terms of that. Like, this is like a promise of God that we heard. One of the things that we would do as a family, a lot that we kind of, like picked up at our time at elevation is, is pick a word for the year, you know, and we have like a word that we kind of, like rally around for our family for the year. And so just looking back, me, my wife take it very seriously. And we like, spent a lot of time praying and seeking, like, what is the thing that like, what is kind of this umbrella that you want to like, cover our family with? Like, in the past, some of our words have been like, words like clarity, like, we need clarity for our future or expectation, like we’re expected that God is, you know, going to like show up. And we don’t know what it might look like, but we’re expected. And so there’s been a lot of stuff like that. And it’s not necessarily like this is like a promise from the Lord. But it’s more so like, this is what we feel like the Lord is like Spoken like a word over our family. And so we’re going to press into that and kind of like believe that Yeah,

Alex Enfiedjian 22:36 yeah, that’s rad. Just kind of wrapping up this whole transition thing. Looking back, what do you feel you did? Well, to transition out? What do you wish you did better? or any kind of just final concepts about that?

Mack Brock 22:51 I feel like the process is really good and healthy for us, honestly, I think it was it was good for for my family. And I think like good for, you know, elevation and where we came from. And so I don’t know if there’s anything that I would do different or change. Um,

Alex Enfiedjian 23:07 no, that’s good. And I mean, even what you just said, like it was good for your family and good for elevation. Like every person so far, in my two years of this new church like that has gone out, a couple of people have gone out and they’re like, worship pastors at other churches now. And or they’re, you know, serving in other places, and every buddy who’s taken a step of faith like that, it’s been so good for their soul for their walk with the Lord for the kingdom of God. And it’s like, whenever people take steps of faith, I feel like it’s a win for everybody, you know. So yeah, I love that. You mentioned that. Let’s talk about the album, the new one covered, because I feel like you’ve really to now since you’ve been out of elevation, the new one covered I just listened to it like a few days ago. And the words that I wrote down to describe it or like very intimate, vulnerable, and personal and it’s like we’re peeking into a room where it’s just you a guitar and the Lord and these are kind of your authentic prayers to the Lord. Like you weren’t writing for Nashville. You were writing your true prayers to the Lord. Is that how you describe it?

Mack Brock 24:13 Yeah, that’s a great description. I love that description. It was Yeah, I would say that the songs have been really vulnerable for me and they have been very just kind of important to me. You know, it’s one of those things that it’s a little bit weird when you’re a songwriter. And then the song like ministers to you kind of feels a little bit like cocky or something. But, but for real, like they have been and I love you know, that intimate process of songwriting and sometimes you don’t know like, where the words come from, or where, how the Lord like deposits like a song down into you. But when it does, like it’s really has been like a ministry to me. And there are a lot of songs on this project that I have to sing over myself. And so it’s been a really special project for me,

Alex Enfiedjian 25:05 you want to talk a little bit about the production, it sounds not live, but it sounds more organic.

Mack Brock 25:11 We spent just a week in the studio, I got, you know, Jason Ingram produced it. And going into it, me and him just talked a lot about, like, we don’t want to get into the studio, like fully formed with the songs and we’re just tracking them. You know, like, we know all the parts. And we know every, all the dynamics, and we just got to track the parts, we kind of went into it, just like, let’s get some of like our favorite musicians get into a studio for a week. And we’ll just have everybody there all week long. And we’ll just kind of live in it and see what comes out what sounds come out with dynamics come out. And so we really treated it. I felt like when we were going over the song, I mean, some of the songs we were still writing in the studio to like, we were still like finishing up parts here and there. The way it felt to me was like church rehearsal. You know, like when you’re like rehearsing for a worship set, and you get the band in the, you know, on stage, and you’re trying to work out like, Alright, how are we going to do this? It felt like that, but just in the studio. And so we would we track a lot of different takes and figure out what dynamic we like the best or what I don’t know, just like what flow of the song like felt the best in the moment, and then we start whittling it down. So is it really, it was a really great process?

Alex Enfiedjian 26:25 Yeah, it’s very organic. Yeah. Are there any songs in particular that like you feel like listeners should check out and potentially introduce into their congregations,

Mack Brock 26:33 the two songs that stick out to me the most, that have just been like, really special for me to sing is one I am loved, which is just a song, that is something that I need to hear for myself. Because I have, I have a tendency to see like, God is like a frustrated God at me, you know, just kind of like annoyed at me for not doing things right all the time. And for you know, I just have a hard time I think accepting his love from being honest. And I still do sometimes, you know, I still have those moments. I think being a dad, now, I’ve started to get a glimpse of just that unconditional love. And that’s like, helped transform how I see God. But that’s just been like a really special song for me, and then the other one is still in control. And that’s just a song that was kind of birthed out of a lot of anxiety, for the future anxiety for like our world or country or, you know, my kids, and feeling like, just really anxious about a lot of things. I was talking with a friend of mine, and we just kept coming back to this idea of like, you know, my God is still in control that like even when I’m looking into like the darkness, and it feels like so overwhelming and heavy. I really can trust that God is still in control, no matter what.

Alex Enfiedjian 27:56 Yeah. And thanks for being vulnerable about the whole love, you know, feeling God’s love thing. Like I think a lot of us resonate with that same sentiment, like, I think God’s just mad at me all the time. But it’s real. I

Mack Brock 28:08 think if you, I grew up in the church, and my wife did it. And when I met her, it was like, I just remember this difference between like the way that we like, kind of saw God. And I realized, like she, she met the Lord, like when she was in high school. And she just has a very tender. I don’t know, like a tender acceptance of like an understanding of God’s love for her. And I think sometimes when we grow up in the church, and we’re surrounded just by like, the constant language of God’s love, and grace and mercy and His sacrifice that he made for us, sometimes it just, it gets so easy to get caught up in just like the language, and not the depth of like, the reality of what that language represents. And so it’s just easy for us to get in this, like, we get lost, you know, in the linguistics of it, or we get lost and just like the just the distracting stuff that like take away from just like the basic understanding that like God loves us. And it doesn’t go away. It doesn’t change.

Alex Enfiedjian 29:15 Yeah, so I am loved everybody Check, check that song out for sure and and introduce it into your bodies and not your real bodies, your church bodies. Well, I guess by listening to it, you also introduce it into your body technically. So

Alex Enfiedjian 29:29 there you go. Mac. So where can people stay up with you online? Two questions. That one where can they find you online? And

Alex Enfiedjian 29:37 I think a cool question right now in this transitional season is how can people specifically be praying for you and your family? Oh, man,

Mack Brock 29:43 thanks for asking. That’s fair to say up you know is like Facebook and Instagram. You know, it’s just Mack Brock. Stuff like that or my website which is just Mack rock calm, but I think prayers for our family. The biggest thing that I tell people like that they can be praying for us is just Continued prayer for, for just the connection in our family and we’re just in a really like sweet season like with our kids. And I kind of have like a weird job where like, I’m home a lot. And I’m like, when I’m home, just kind of like home. I’m like, very, you know, active with the kids and active with my wife, but then, but then I’m gone a lot, too. I travel a lot. And so there’s like, it’s very, like night and day sometimes. And so just I don’t know, it’s it’s always a prayer for us that every time like, I’m home and present that would be supernaturally, like, charged in the connection that I have like with my children. And, you know, our prayer is constantly like that, what I do as like a ministry, through like music or traveling or whatever it might be. I don’t want that to just be like Mack Brock’s ministry, I want that to be like the Brock family ministry, and I want my kids to be a part of that my wife to be a part of that. And so we’re constantly finding like ways to bring them in. And so just I don’t know, just like praying that connection remains, you know?

Alex Enfiedjian 31:08 Yeah. That’s really good. And I’ll pray for you. And I’m sure that people listening, we’ll pray for you as well. Matt, thank you for your time today and for your ministry to the global church. We appreciate it so much. Yeah. Thanks, Alex. All right. That’s all we have time for today. I hope this episode was helpful to you, especially if you are one of those people who are considering whether or not to transition into something new. I will say as a final word, never run from something always run to something. So wait for the Lord to open something and give you clarity on that thing. Don’t just run away from your problems. That’s not what God would want. So that’s it for today. I hope you guys were blessed. Check out max new project covered. It’s amazing. It’s on all the normal platforms, Spotify, iTunes, all that check out core sound pads, our sponsor this month, and get some amazing sounds you can check that out at core sound Alright guys, God bless you. We’ll see you next month for another helpful episode.