Nobody begins ministry with plans to burn out, ruin their family, walk away from the faith, or have an affair, but unfortunately these things happen on a regular basis in the Church. So how do we guard ourselves from these things? How do we set ourselves up to be faithful and fruitful for the long haul? Worship ministry veteran Paul Baloche joins us today to talk longevity and fruitfulness in ministry. Paul has had a 25 year career as a worship pastor, songwriter, recording artist, and worship trainer, and he’s still going strong! Enjoy the wisdom from Mr. Paul Baloche as he shares the things that have allowed him to have a long and fruitful ministry!
Two elements needed to having a long and fruitful ministry: A healthy Spiritual Life & A Healthy Family Life – Tweet That!
Being around others who are “God pursuers” is a key to staying faithful for the long haul. – Tweet That!
The soft pressure and accountability of standing onstage each Sunday keeps us on the right track and close to God. – Tweet That!
The neglect of Spiritual Disciplines is the fast-track to burn out. – Tweet That!
Let’s not let our relationship with God become dependent on our emotions. Sometimes it’s about the commitment. – Tweet That!
You can’t minister to others week after week if you aren’t tending to your own soul. – Tweet That!
We can’t be naive about temptation. Satan wants to take us out of ministry any way he can. – Tweet That!
Get on God’s ship and be part of what he’s doing on the earth in our generation with the limited time we have. – Tweet That!
Unknown Speaker 00:11 Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the worship leader training podcast. This is Alex Enfiedjian. Your host, super thankful that you are tuning in today. You have a real treat today is Episode 24 of the podcast and we are hearing from the one and only Paul Bosch, Paul and I talk about longevity and fruitfulness in ministry. A lot of church leaders and worship leaders tend to burn out early or disqualify themselves or run their family ragged. But Paul has had a long legacy of fruitful and faithful ministry. And I just wanted to pick his brain and get his insights on on what the keys were of, of being faithful for the long haul, and not disqualifying himself or burning out or giving up. So great insights from Paul blush today. The interview does start out a little different than normal. Paul actually kind of peppers me with a question or two at the beginning. And we were recording. So he said, Hey, put this in the podcast. So I’m obeying my my elder. And so enjoy today’s episode with Paul lash. Great.
Unknown Speaker 01:28 Report and then and then answer the question again, let me ask you that question. Would you alright, sure. Well, yeah, I was curious worship leader podcast. And I was just, you know, I’ve seen you be part of worship team podcast and worship. So this is worship leaders at a new thing for you.
Unknown Speaker 01:45 It is it is I just changed the name from worship team podcast, and kind of the the way that it all started was I just, I, I was 29 leading worship at a church in Monterey, and Monterey, California. And I hit 29. And I said, Oh, my gosh, I’m almost 30. In 10 years, I’ll be 40. And I want to do something with my life beyond just stand on the stage and lead the church, which that is a noble thing in and of itself. But I was like, I want to, I want to be somebody who is equipping other people much like you, Paul, or, or even like Bob kauflin, you guys have raised up a whole army of young, talented, passionate worship leaders with a godly mindset. And I was like, that’s what I want to be about, I want to be about equipping other people. So I started the worship team podcast, based out of the training material that I was creating for my own team. And I was, I was like, Well, I’m making this material, I might as well put it online. And so I did that. And then I quickly realized that I’m talking more to worship leaders than worship team members. And so I kind of, I switched the name up. And, and yeah, that’s my heart is just to raise up other people because I don’t want to, I don’t want to get to the end of my life and have not multiplied myself and advanced the Ministry of carrying the gospel through music, so totally, totally. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 03:03 I mean, I totally relate. And I actually so identify with being around 30 years old, you know, I was down in lyndale, Texas, at a local church just beginning to try to write songs and maybe we’ve done an album or to maybe and you know, lot smart kids and but just the more I did overseas things, especially with why Wham youth with a mission. There are these little worship schools kind of popping up where they do a one month school or several weeks, and they would kind of bring me in to be the more OF THE PRACTICAL GUY would teach music theory or guitar for worship and all that and I just remember, again, almost feeling like Who am I even, it’s felt so presumptuous, like men. I’m doing a praise and worship, contemporary guitar, whatever was called it was a VHS videotape, because I remember finishing a week with a lot of these students and oftentimes in other countries, and I’d say, Man, I’m, I’m frustrated that we’re out of time. And I wish I could just give you a DVD or Well, there wasn’t even a DVD yet it was I wish I could give you a tape of VHS with like two hours of like, everything that I would teach you if I could spend six months with you like on the guitar, etc. So I remember finding two guys where the camera in Texas and just going Ah, I guess maybe you stand there and maybe you could shoot the right hand I guess. And it’s completely, you know, just a completely the whole time I’m doing it. I’m thinking why does it feel kaigi do this I do people that are so much better than me like, and yet I thought, but I I experienced the hunger from those who were just wanting to learn is just so hungry for information and encouragement. And so kind of what you’re what you’re saying is well, I just felt like Well, I’m willing, I’m just gonna pass this on. Maybe it’ll help somebody and then then that evolves into well, and there was another video and then there was one on actual worship leading, here’s some, here’s the way I think about leading worship, or here’s how I think about putting a setlist together and, and just see people respond to be helped by that I’m encouraged and made me feel like well, you know, it’s not in vain, you know the labor, the effort is not in vain, I’ll just keep doing this as long as people are being helped by it. And
Unknown Speaker 05:31 yeah, so and I can, I can totally relate to like feeling totally unqualified, because I’m just a normal young guy who’s who’s trying to teach other people but I’m like, even just the other day, I’m like, Who am I really to be sharing these things with others, there are others who are way better than me who know way more than me who are more trained than me. But like you said, it’s just Lord, this is what I feel called to do. And I’m going to do it. And if it helps 10 people great if it helps 1000 people great, honestly, Lord, I’m just gonna leave the fruit of it to you. And however you want to work, go for it, you know, and, and I’ve totally taken my hands off this thing at this point, and just said, Lord, I don’t care if if it helps one person, or 10 people or 1000. And it’s funny that the more I take my hands off it, the more he blesses it. So last night, that’s classic God stuff. Yeah. And honestly, Paul, your your DVDs have helped me and my teams at my last church that I was at in Monterey, I, I bought the whole set, and we watched it, and I would give it out to each team member. And I would say, I want you to watch this one, I want you to come back with three things. And they, they would come back with these like things that they learned and you helped our team grow. So thank you for for that.
Unknown Speaker 06:43 That’s great to hear. That’s really always an encouragement to hear, even when we do our lead worship events. And you know, after the event to st height as a few folks, and it’s really a beautiful moment, sometimes when you’ll see a dad and then his son will come up just to say, you know, maybe the sons in his 20s and say, you know, I grew up watching all the DVDs. And I’ve been playing in my dad’s worship team, he was a worship leader. And out of that now I’m leading worship at a small church. And it’s just like, Man, that’s so I just think back to those small beginnings to those like, you know, how presumptuous of me to think that this could help someone and yet, so maybe that’s the lesson for all of us, any of our listeners, right now is that, you know, basically, we’re commanded by Paul or Paul commanded Timothy to say, he said, essentially, I’m paraphrasing that these things which I’ve taught you, these things that I’ve handed down to you turn around and pass them on to other faithful men, you know, men and woman, but to paraphrase, but I just like that, the image of that from generation to generation, you know, let’s just pass on the things that people have poured into us. Let’s turn around and pass it on. Let’s keep passing it on, you know,
Unknown Speaker 07:57 yeah. And I think it’s so cool to think, Paul that so you made these DVDs that helped me which helped my team, which in turn helped strengthen the church, the congregation. So it’s like, it’s such a ripple effect and the effect and the fruitfulness of it is so far beyond just helping one person because if we’re helping leaders, of churches get better than we’re helping the church itself grow into the word and into God more. And so it’s really cool. And I just want to thank you for your faithfulness, and the fruits of your labor. So
Unknown Speaker 08:31 great. Well, thanks. And I just want to throw out to those listening again, that, let’s say you’re, you know, 22, and you’re the guitar player, look for those teenagers in your church look for be intentional, no matter what your age is, be intentional, even if it’s one person, just be open to sort of being a friend being available, giving a little encouragement or feedback, not not, if it’s not true, but if you sense as I did for many years at my church, you know, 25 years, I watched a lot of young guys and gals come up in their teens. And I could just tell man, there’s something on this person there is there’s a favor, there’s a gifting in the area of worship, and I would try to pay attention to those instincts, those impulses and make sure that, you know, I invited him over, we got to hang out got to just be you know, discipleship isn’t always super formal, or in a DVD, a lot of it is just being available, being sort of a friend. Not a best friend, per se, but just just hanging out and taking an interest and maybe saying, you know, when I was 17 One of the things that really helped me was when I did blank, blank and blank, you know, that really helped me in my so just no matter what your ages, pass it on, and if you’re, you know, in your 40s or 50s just throw out an encouragement. Don’t be insecure. That these young folks coming up, you know, you could almost we could react Out of insecurity and think, Well wait, well wait a minute, I want to keep doing this. I don’t want to lose my, my, quote, job or my role as. And yet, I encourage you, if you’re a little bit older to think of yourself more as a player coach, right? You know, like in hockey or AI, they don’t do it so much anymore, and footballer, but it used to be that that was a little bit more common where you’d have a player, but he coach, he was a coach, but he also would get in there and play sometimes so. So I think it’s imperative that we make room that we make way for the next generation, and yet, hopefully still play a strong role and still get to do what we get to do. You know,
Unknown Speaker 10:41 yeah, absolutely. You actually make yourself more valuable. If you’re multiplying other leaders under you, you don’t have to be insecure that you’re going to lose your job because you’re actually you’re making yourself as valuable as you can possibly be, because you’re creating a whole bunch of leaders. So yeah, I encourage that sentiment as well. So this is all stuff that usually happens before I hit record. But Paul suggested I hit record. So the other thing I usually do before I hit record is I pray that God would use us can we pray real quick, and then we’ll get into some of these questions. Yeah, God, thank you so much for Paul and his heart. I just am so blessed by him already and have been in the past. And God, we just want this interview to encourage worship leaders, and church leaders to make it through the long haul to be faithful to the end. To not disqualify themselves from ministry or sabotage their family or we want to see this podcast help leaders go long and go well, in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. I fall. So how long have you been doing this full time? And how did you get started? Maybe the one minute version of how you got started in ministry,
Unknown Speaker 11:57 one minute version? Wow. Well, you know, I grew up Catholic kid in New Jersey, outside of Philadelphia, was in a bunch of rock bands in high school, played a little the Jersey Shore and etc. And then, by 1819, I met some people that talked about Jesus like he was real. And I thought, well, man, before you know it, as I became friends with them, I had a real born again, experience. Real radical. I say radical. I mean, I’m just talking like, man, I was just different. So that was the journey. I never heard Christian music started hearing Christian music on the radio. And I thought, Man, that’s really awesome. It’s like really good music, but it’s about God. Cool. So I thought, well, you know, if I was going to ever do something like this and feel like I need to kind of shore up my experience, maybe get some some real trainings, I went to California went to a music school, kind of a jazz school Grove School music and Studio City. And like North Hollywood, and that was a year and a half. And a lot of it was musicianship and theory, etc. I met a singer named Kelly Willard, who was a Christian artists began playing guitar with her they moved to Alabama Muscle Shoals, I spent time in Muscle Shoals played guitar for Lenny LeBlanc. And just really learn from them serving them. I would say there’s a principle here for anyone serving others who were doing the kind of ministry that you respect that you would perhaps like to do someday. I think a great place to start is look for a way to serve those, you know, the word God opens a door you know, just just be a servant. So I mean, I would do things like mow their lawn, babysit their kids. Oh, and play guitar sometimes when she would have a little concert but it really taught me a lot just about serving and even linear linear block was a worship pastor, but he was also the kind of the janitor, you know, he was just take care of things around the church. And that I thought, Man, it’s such an incredibly talented guy. And he had such humility and such a servant heart. And so we did a lot of prisons and high school assembly things. Blah, blah, blah. Back to Jersey, got married, Kelly Willard moved to Texas, and after about a year in Jersey, I just felt like hey, it’s an hour never like we are we’re gonna do something crazy or not. So we loaded up our little Ford Escort and we drove down that lyndale Texas had no idea what we were gonna do. But we did you know why when stuff and youth with a mission we went through their program. We were at last days ministries, which is where Keith green kind of him and his wife started that so melody green was still there, and the ministry was still going. So we plugged into that and then there was the local church there that Keith originally back in the day would lead it was very informal and almost like a warehouse thing, but like all the ministry people would show up on Sunday mornings, and I just kind of volunteer To play guitar, and did that for a few months. And then one time the pastor just said, Paul, why don’t you just kind of come up and lead us in a couple songs? Well, we just pray, I’m gonna have a time of prayer. And I just remember freaking out a little bit, because I was not, that was not my thing. I was more of just a guitar player. But of course, I did, just because I was on the spot. And anyway, he encouraged me and just said, Look, we can’t pay you much. But we got a little room in the back. We’ll just clean that little closet out. And you can make that like an office, and we’ll pay you like $50 a week, and just maybe put a band together, see what the Lord does? You know,
Unknown Speaker 15:36 that’s amazing. And look at where you are now and how God has blessed it. Isn’t that awesome?
Unknown Speaker 15:41 I didn’t know I’m just saying it’s for those out there. I didn’t necessarily go to worship leading school or whatever. I mean, just serving others, like the apprentice, get around people that you feel like are healthy and the Lord and and just serve them whether maybe they’re not even a worship leader, maybe they’re just a couple in your church, that they need some help with their kids, maybe you’re but there’s something about them. There’s a leadership aspect about them. And you just feel like, you know, I want to help these people and serve them because as you serve them, you’re learning so much you’re learning learning way more than you’ll ever learn just from reading a book,
Unknown Speaker 16:15 right? So so you really and this, this podcast episode is kind of focusing around the idea of longevity and fruitfulness in ministry, right? And you, you, God has given you the privilege of being at the start of what we call the modern day worship movement, right? And, you know, might want to call yourself a godfather of the modern gamers worship movement, or one of the founding fathers or whatever. And so you’ve had this, this awesome, long ministry that hasn’t waned in its fruitfulness. And I’m sure that there are some people who started out in that modern, the beginning of that modern day worship movement with you, good friends, fellow servants, who either over the last 2030 years have walked away from the faith or have left ministry is that true? People have fallen off the wagon. Yeah, yes. So Paul, in what for you, what do you what would you say? You’ve stayed faithful and not only faithful, but fruitful. So what would you say? is the one or two main things besides the grace of God that has allowed you to stay faithful to serving the church and loving Jesus?
Unknown Speaker 17:24 Wow, you know, a lot of things. It’s a great question. I like you just said faithfulness and fruitfulness. That’s a good little blog idea. Let’s write that down. And,
Unknown Speaker 17:35 man, you exemplify it. And that’s why I asked you to be on the podcast for for the long longevity and fruitfulness, faithful and fruitful, you exemplify that. So what are the what are the kind of key factors in in that for you?
Unknown Speaker 17:48 Well, let’s see. Um, again, as you say, the grace of God. And that sounds almost cliche. And yet, you know, for sure, like everything I read, always have recognized like, God’s grace is like this umbrella. And as long as I stay under his umbrella, I feel his covering, I feel his favor, I feel his blessing. And you know, to come out, remove yourself from that umbrella, so to speak, out of rebellion, not saying that you have to be perfect because none of us are perfect. We’ve all failed here in there, but to just continue to pursue God so I would say staying in that church for us, you know, being around people who were God pursuers, you know, people that were pursuing God, why Wham Teen Mania, last days ministries, Calvary commission, I mean, there was a lot, it was an unusual place. But of course, you can find any of us any of us listening right now, surely, within a 50 mile radius, you can find these pockets of hunger, pockets of revival may not even be in your own church, it may require you to go to a prayer meeting on a Tuesday night at that church on the other side of town, and just be just be in there and, and hear the prayers of the saints and be inspired by their heart so many, many times when, you know, maybe my own personal walk would would be in danger of waning, you know, the just the look out of the faces of the people I was serving in the sea. Not every you know, of course, just like every other church, half of them are, don’t look like they’re even awake or alive. But there was enough people over the years. It just were inspiring to me, and they just made me believe that man, I see the work of God in their life. that inspires me to keep pressing on into God. And so we just kept doing that and building relationships and accountability and local church and 25 years later, you know, just all that just for us being rooted in that fellowship, really helped and going through good times, bad times. People babies being born, people dying, you know, funerals and weddings and just living life with a community I would say is probably the you know that That’s really, you know, way beyond leading worship or being part of worship team. It’s just like being a believer that’s growing, it requires being part of a body, a body of believers that as healthy as possible. Again, there’s no perfect church that we’re all. We’re all in process, we’re all working out our salvation in fear and trembling. And, but I would say, that’s probably one of the biggest things for me. And also then being part of actually integrity. Once we did just begin to write songs with a car, and I just said, we’re gonna go show up at the church, a couple days a week, we’ll meet at eight o’clock, make coffee, open up our Bibles, and just begin to see, you know, just work on songs we wrote, man, a couple 100 songs, a lot of not so good song songs, we thought were good. But you have to write a lot of sort of average or bad songs for a good one to just kind of pop out once in a while. Yeah. But we just felt like a mandate to just show up, just show up and do the work just like if you’re a carpenter, or a lawyer or housewife, you know, just show up. And so we did that. And then once I started working with integrity, we did an album there. And that created a kind of a good pressure, the demand on me really, in terms of fruitfulness when you say, because, yeah, then you almost feel like, Oh, well, I’m gonna have to do a project a year from now, which means we’re gonna have to have some songs that I believe in songs that, you know, are working in our church and cetera. So that helped create a little bit of a, you know, a soft pressure, you know, like, self imposed pressure. And until you have that kind of thing, you have to find ways, maybe go to your senior pastor and say, Look, I feel like the Lord called me to fill in the blank, you know, at worst lead worship, or to write songs, or both, or I think having someone make you accountable with your time and some productivity so that when a week goes by, you can at least say, Yeah, my goal is to try to at least, by Friday, have a song almost finished, like each week. And even if I fall short of that goal a year from now have somewhere between 45 or 52 songs, maybe. But if you don’t set a goal, and if you don’t have accountability, then a year goes by and you’re like, yeah, I have a couple ideas. And you’re like, someday I’d really like to write songs. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so. So
Unknown Speaker 22:28 yeah, no, that’s super helpful. I and I really love what you said about community being one of the key factors in in allowing you to stay faithful, like, I think that’s underestimated, but I love I love how you hit on that, because that’s so true. Paul, another thing that I see happen in churches and in leadership, and I know I felt it in my own heart is this tendency as worship leaders and songwriters or whatever we are podcast producers, blah, blah, blah, we kind of have this tendency to want to do great things for God to try to move mountains. And so we like we’ve tried to rush to see results if we started a new church, or, you know, we want to we want to rush in our ministry and see these professional goals or hit these ministry goals. And we sprint instead of like, jog, you know, and, and I and I see a lot of worship leaders burning out. And I’ve, I’ve been in places where like, I feel the grind and you’re, you’re kind of talking about this rhythm of grinding of pushing out songs. Have you ever been in seasons over the last 25 years? Where where you’ve felt burnt out? And if so, what would you say was the root cause of of the burnout?
Unknown Speaker 23:35 Great. I mean, the honest answer is of course yes, I have I’m wired to work I’m definitely a Martha I’m a recovering Martha you know, I was feel for Mary I love Mary and I want to be more Mary like because Jesus said Mary chose the better part. And yet I’m also a guy that’s like hey, look around there’s work to be done folks. Let’s go Let’s get this thing moving. Yeah, like a coach I keep referring to these sort of athletic I don’t know if you grew up playing any team sports but I was here to see the church oftentimes just kind of like you know the the harvest is plentiful the laborers are few Come on, let’s get some but you’re right. I have hit that wall many times and neglecting maybe some spiritual disciplines or neglecting Yeah, just neglecting mon Sol like treating your soul. Almost where that changed for me was like 10 years ago, I started had this thought of like, I got to take care of my soul as if it was like one of my kids. So somewhere inside of my adult guy personality and sounds maybe like psychobabble, but, but that image helped me it’s like how would I would I put that much pressure on one of my kids? No, no, I would be compassionate. I extend some grace I would. And so as I became more intentional about just extending some grace to myself that it wasn’t always about my output and getting everything done. Yet on the other hand, I must say that I’m grateful that I had the soft pressure and expectation to show up week after week, and get up on a platform and in the name of Jesus with with as much integrity as I can bring that week to try to encourage and lead others in worship. I’m grateful for that. Because without that sort of consistent demand, if you will, and one hand Yes, at times, you can grind us on the other hand, it was like, you can see it as an accountability to that, you know, if I hadn’t had that expectation to kind of show up with, you know, dealing with my attitude, dealing with issues of my heart, you know, repenting and confessing, dealing with all that stuff, then it’d be easy to sort of withdraw, you know, and then we withdraw, we’re not really on the platform anymore. And then we’re not in the third row anymore. We’re kind of like, in the middle. Now we’re in the back stand around with arms folded, looking around saying, Oh, look at that guy. He’s a hypocrite, look at that, we get sort of jaded and cynical, and it’s like, yuck, I don’t want to go there, man. So yeah, so that weekly expectation, as I look back, I realized, right, I recognize how much it helped and, and my personal walk with God, because knowing that, oh, man, I can’t show up and be with this bad attitude or with this thing undealt with so it would force me to keep short accounts, never heard of that expression, you know, keep short accounts, just, you know, deal with stuff, confess it, acknowledge it, get it out, you know, and then. So
Unknown Speaker 26:43 that’s super helpful. And, and it’s funny that you use the word or the phrase, he said, Get on the stage with as much integrity as I could. And I think that’s such a freeing way of looking at it. Because, you know, sometimes we get up there, and we’re just like, I don’t really want to be here right now. And I don’t feel good. But if you can get up and like, just kind of own that and be like, hey, church, like, we’re gonna worship Jesus, because he’s worthy, not because we feel like it or whatever, you know, and you can with integrity, be where you’re at. But you still have that, that Sunday morning, every week come in. And so you’ve it kind of like you said, it keeps you on track, it keeps you accountable. I had a joke with my mild senior pastor that like, the only reason God chose to put us in paid ministry is he knew it would be the only way to keep us focused on him. You know,
Unknown Speaker 27:33 that but but true many times, many, many, many times. It wasn’t, of course, for all of us. But and Sadly, many times, our role can become our job or, or our relationship with Jesus almost becomes like a job, which we’ve to be on guard against that.
Unknown Speaker 27:52 Yeah, that was one of my questions was because I’ve gone through seasons where I get to the point and I’m like, am I even really a Christian? Or do I just do this because it’s my job. And I have to get up on the stage on Sunday. And you know, what, Paul, I actually took my wife and I took a break from ministry about a well, we just kind of finished it, it was a nine month break, I was working just a regular job for the last nine months. And my listeners don’t even know this yet. So there you go, Hey, I took a I stepped out of ministry to kind of reprioritize and focus on family and I had kind of gotten my family burnt out. And we’ll talk about that later. So I took a nine month break just to reprioritize on on my wife and kids and being there and not being so driven to serve the church and all that. And so, being out of ministry for nine months was one of the most refreshing freeing things for me, because I’ve spent my whole adult career in ministry. And I started to ask myself, do I really like have a relationship with Jesus? Or is it just because I’m in ministry? So have you ever struggled with those thoughts? And and how do you? if so how do you make sure that your relationship with Christ stays real and vibrant over the years that you’ve been doing this?
Unknown Speaker 29:06 I mean, that is that’s the that’s the big question right there, isn’t it? That’s very important for all of us, and the first thing that comes to mind is, so I’m married 29 years, three kids. And in even the best of marriages, there are times and seasons where you just get up and you do what you’re supposed to do. And you may not feel the same honeymoon, emotion, thing that maybe you have at other times, but you just it’s a commitment that you’ve made to each other. It’s a covenant it’s a. So, on one hand, I think we need to pay attention to our hearts but sometimes if we rely too much on our hearts or our feelings throughout our ministry, oftentimes we can get sidetracked. We can like become too dependent on, man, I’m just not feeling anything, I don’t know. And it’s all feeling whereas, you know, if you do that every day in your marriage, it’s, that’s, that’s a heck of a thing someday, you know, you just get up and you say I’m married. Now I get up and take the trash out and take the kids to soccer, and give my wife a kiss, and you know, data and like, just make sure I’m doing the things that, that I made a commitment. You know, Jesus said, pick up your cross daily, follow me.
Unknown Speaker 30:31 But you’re saying the same thing is true of our ministries, we might not feel real close with Jesus or have this fuzzy feeling. But you’re saying just, you know, he’s called you to do? Is that what you’re saying?
Unknown Speaker 30:43 Yeah, I mean, that’s one part of the that’s one part of the response, I’ll give you the other half in a minute. Because Because you can’t sustain a relationship, you know, entirely just on obligations, obligation and duty, or I don’t know, maybe you can, I’m just saying that let’s not neglect that important point that let’s not become too feelings dependent and motion dependent in our relationship, because look at Christians around the world that are suffering persecution, and they’re in like, horrific circumstances, and they wake up in the morning and follow Jesus at the cost of their life potentially. So most of us are not in that situation. For us. It’s just, you know, I’m just not feeling anything, you know. However, our God, Jesus is gracious in his example, to get away to get away from ministry, let’s go up into the mountains, let’s get up. Let’s get in the boat, get the boat ready, we’re going to get in the boat, we’re going to go away. Let’s get up early in the morning and pray. I mean, he was very exemplary in understanding the need for Sabbath, and cultivating your soul, your intimacy with the Lord. And I would love to spend an hour on that. I mean, I’ll just a quick shameless plug. But the most recent leading worship DVD I did, a couple of years ago, really, I spent a lot of time talking about ministry to the Lord, that we often neglect that and that’s a that’s an exercise or a discipline that has helped me over the years to just go into sanctuary with my guitar, maybe at the piano with the Psalms open with my journal open, when no one’s there just throughout the week, in the middle of the week, and just begin to sing some songs, sing few familiar songs, and then begin to pray those songs and get some of those lyrics memorized and start to expand your vocabulary of worship and read through the Psalms and when your eyes stops at a certain verse. Go ahead and and maybe put a simple melody to that and if the listeners will go to first Chronicle 16 and just read first Chronicles 16. It talks about the ministry to the Lord that their job it wasn’t about the people, it wasn’t about getting the setlist ready. This was time to just go into the sanctuary. And it said they gave thanks, they praise the Lord and they prayed prayers of petitions. So I love to expound more on that. But, again, if somebody wants to check out the leading worship, somebody probably put it on YouTube. I mean, everybody’s kinda just Scotland stuff. Yeah. Throw it up there. I just I’ve stopped asking people Hey, guys, like this sort of helps me, you know, survive. Five, but I’ve just sort of stopped. So it’s probably on YouTube somewhere.
Unknown Speaker 33:32 But yeah, so you’re saying just really making a habit out of going and spending personal time with the Lord, mixing it up, obviously, because, you know, you might sit down in the sanctuary and worship him or you might go up on a mountaintop and worship him or you might just, I don’t know, crack open your Bible in the morning, but, but there’s kind of a discipline aspect to it. But it’s also just kind of a refocusing thing where you’re saying, My job is to minister to the Lord and no one else. Right, right.
Unknown Speaker 34:04 Yeah, the reason I’m saying that is because it’s not just an idea or a technique I came up with Old Testament, God gave this paradigm to David and David pass it on to the lead bytes and said, This is what you’re instructed to do. So if worship leaders are listening to this podcast, it’s like we let’s go back to first Chronicles 16. This is not a Bethel or Hillsong idea, or Maranatha integrity. This is a King David getting download from the Holy Spirit. And saying, This is what I call you to do first before you even get up on a platform and talk to people and that’s your pastoral role, but for your own heart for your own. I don’t know if it’s for our own heart sorry, but for the glory of God for I created you for my pleasure and I want you to come into the sanctuary. And either literally or figuratively, like as you say, the sanctuary could be you know, on a hillside somewhere, but But to give things like start just in your own, just give thanks even if it feels a little bit forced or a little awkward and then that’s why I say take the Psalms, which is the vocabulary of worship and just go ahead and just speak them out loud, even just, you know, it is good to praise you, Lord, Psalm 92. And make music to your name almost Hi. To proclaim Your love in the morning, then maybe I’ll just pick up the guitar and just like, just play that and just, it is good to praise you make music to your name, almost. And your your, what you’re trying to do is get your own heart going vertical. I mean, here we are week after week trying to encourage others but we don’t tend to our own soul. So I’m saying it’s a good starting point. For those of you they’re like, man, well, how do you keep your heart fresh? We’ll go check. Check that out first Chronicle 16 look at a couple different translations around verse four. It says they gave banks they praise the Lord. They prayed petition. So I love that combination of giving thanks, praising God, with familiar songs with Scripture, but then also that intercession things like Lord, I just pray for the people that are going to be seated here this week, and that kind of that kind of thing. So And may I quickly just correlate everything I just said, since it seems like one of the tie ins you’re one of the pictures that God gave us in His Word is marriage. So are we you know, he’s the bridegroom, we are the bride, okay, collectively, but to think of it in that respect. Our marriages require not only what I was referring to as, like, we’ll get up in the morning and do what you’re supposed to do, you know, love your wife or your spouse and, and just on the other hand, in order for that tenderness and that intimacy and that the soul of that marriage to be healthy. It requires you getting away you know, like a long weekend, you get someone to take the kids and you and then maybe another extent once a year, twice a year more of a vacation, just the two of you more of a week long thing. And so if you parallel that it’s a great picture for a walk with God, you know, to just on a weekly basis, are you finding time to just cultivate that relationship that intimacy? And if that might be for some 6am? Putting on your sneakers, listening to worship music as you jog, or walk? For others? It might be like, No, no, no, I can’t even listen to music. I just got to get quiet in the morning, my cup of coffee, my Bible with my piano in front of me and I just begin to play simple, simple prayers. I just begin to sing my simple prayers. Good morning. Live my heart to you. Good morning, God. I mean, it sounds it sounds childlike. But I’m, that’s what I’m saying. Like we have to cultivate this childlike thing. And and if you’re struggling with it, find a couple kindred spirits in your church or outside of your church, that man you think to yourself, man, there’s something about when they pray, there’s something they got that I just saw respect there. There’s something fresh there. And so you may offer like, Hey, you and a couple other folks, you guys want to meet maybe let’s pick a day or a couple hours where we can just during the week, we can just come and meet and play. Maybe they don’t actually play an instrument, but there’s something about their prayer life, and about their relationship with God just as inspiring to you. So you know what I mean? Like, so don’t be don’t feel awkward about finding a few kindred spirits to do this kind of thing with you minister to the Lord together.
Unknown Speaker 38:40 Yeah. Man, you’re, you’re full of gold. Paul. I can totally relate. I had a gentleman at my old church, Bob kuva. He was 72 years old. And his prayer life and his relationship with God was so sweet and so close. I wanted to know how he did it. And so I spent a lot of time with Bob and I just would pray with him and watch him pray and listen to him pray and just inspired me to have that fresh relationship with the Lord. So that’s a really good point. Just be around people who inspire you and you kind of said that earlier too. So that’s, that’s kind of a reoccurring theme in in this whole concept of longevity and staying faithful for the for the long haul. love Jesus, worship. Jesus.
Unknown Speaker 39:55 As you were talking, I started to think it seems like there are two elements needed to have A long and fruitful ministry and one is to have a healthy spiritual life. And the second is to have a healthy family life. Like if those two things aren’t there, you will not make it the long haul, right? So I want to talk to you about your family life and how you’ve not only kept your family through the years of ministry, but you’ve actually included them in ministry. I mean, I feel like you and read to have a wonderful marriage, your son has even come in to help you by doing music videos for you. You’re including your family ministry. So, so talk to us about that, because a lot of people lose their families to ministry.
Unknown Speaker 40:37 Right? Right, sadly, and there are definitely my heart breaks for those because you could do everything right. But at the end of the day, even God, like God did everything right. And yet, so much of his creation rebuild, so. So I say that for those who have a broken heart, perhaps over some of their family situations. And, you know, there were times so I would say, my experience, there’s a couple principles looking back that I by no means think we did it perfectly, but our attempt to to make our our house a god focus house without being overly religious and uptight and super fundamentalist, you know, like, but just keeping God at the center, just, you know, some, some families, I’ve watched man, they get their kids up at seven, and they do the 15 minute devotion, they all read the Bible. And it was like, unbelievable, amazing. And every time we tried to do stuff like that, we just, it just never worked. And we felt like failures. But we did try to always include our kids since we were at the church so much to you know, learning an instrument learning to sing doing some singing at home, you know, music in itself is just fun. And it’s a great thing to do with your kids. And then as they’re able to include them as much as possible. So sure, I remember when my son started playing bass at our church, for my daughter became, you know, one of our singers at 12 or 13 years old, and etc. And then my son learn piano Hey, I need you to play piano next week, David, hey, you know, can you do this? Or Sri, can you do this, and I just reminds me, there’s a YouTube clip. About two years ago, my youngest daughter, and I had a conversation and they filmed it. And if anybody would be interested in looking that up on just Google, like Paul melosh daughter, YouTube, it was like a cool 10 minute conversation, it was interesting for me to hear her perspective, growing up in our home. And then as they got older, as I traveled, I’ve always tried to bring one of my kids with me to do something, you know, either. I did a whole tour in France, and my daughter who part of my motivation does do a French album was because she was majoring in French at university. And I said, once you come and sing background vocals for me, and you can be my translator. And so that was an unforgettable two week trip, my daughter and then my son played bass with me many times when I could have hired a better bass player in Nashville, maybe but I thought, hey, David, let’s let’s practice these songs. So again, that interaction, working together playing together working toward a goal together is pretty powerful.
Unknown Speaker 43:20 Yeah. And maybe Can you give a couple other examples, non musical examples of how you guys kept your home God centered?
Unknown Speaker 43:27 I think just our daily conversation, like, at the very minimum, of course, every meal, you know, every meal, like Alright, let’s just, you know, to give thanks. You know, God, you’re so good to us. We just just want to say we’re grateful. And we’re just humbled by your goodness in our lives. And you know, just even that the very basics of always giving thanks before a meal, and not like I said, not in some weird religious way. We’re in a restaurant. We don’t say everybody, let us give thanks. You know, just Muslim guys, you could just respectfully quiet Hey, guys, real quick. Let’s just bring it in. Hey, Lord, thank you for being so good to us. We’re blessed. And we don’t take this for granted. And we just love you in Jesus name, amen. I mean, that’s even that, like, just, that’s a daily sowing seed. It just tells your kids that you’re sincere, you’re still pursuing God, you’re. And when we would write a song, they could see all that happen. We’d be like, Hey, guys, what do you think about this? And maybe my wife would play a little song or I play a little song idea. And asking them like, what do you guys think that you had any? What would you do? And like, respecting their opinion involving them? I know that’s another musical example. Sorry, but it’s good.
Unknown Speaker 44:33 You love music. Paul. That’s your kids. Now talk a little bit about your wife. Like I think I’ve seen some friends or I know friends who their pastors have just, you know, walked away with another woman or whatever. So So how did you and Rita just grow close through the years and how did you protect your marriage to just make sure that you would be faithful through the long haul to each other?
Unknown Speaker 44:59 Yeah, that’s That’s something we can’t be naive about. Because we just see all the time. And I used to keep a called the Proverbs six file. If you read proverbs six, it’s like the guy who sort of wanders, his eye wanders, and next thing, you know, it’s like, he hooks up with a prostitute and all that, and I used to keep a folder sounds mccobb. But you know, when newspapers, like this person fell, or this person fell, or that person fell, or this guy respected or this, I would just cut out the articles and put it in my, it’s like, right where I pay my bills, like, there’s proverbs six file just the key bit ever before me that this is, this could be you. This could be your life, this could be everything you’ve done, all the things you’ve tried to do that are good and right. And, and godly, you know, in a moment, this could be you, Paul, this your whole reputation your whole life, your whole family, your ministry, like, that’s okay. I mean, fear is a good motivator, you know, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So, the fear of consequences not. So I would say start there, like start, like, look at look at fast forward, my wife and I would use that term a lot like it fast forward the movie, like we, you know, in a situation of temptation, or you just think, okay, fast forward. So you fast forward that and you go, okay, we will fare a little this little fun little this and that, but then it’s like, destruction, everything, everything gone. Just forget it. So, you know, so fast forward is like one of those little, those little phrases that we think as a guy traveling, always having a band, having my manager always or my wife, just always having somebody with you, it just removes a lot of even just for your even if like you feel like you’re doing okay, in those areas. It just removes any, like, yeah, it just removes the option or even like the contemplation or any kind of mental attack or something that will catch you off guard, you’re just like, you’re, you’re, you’re with a good friend, and you guys are accountable, and you’re just out there to minister. And so those are practical things. And, again, being a church in a local church being accountable finding, I will say this, you know, you got to find two or three people you can really be super honest with. But you that’s super important. Hear what I said, and it may not be your senior pastor who may not be your elder, because maybe a lot of us fear. Someone listening may fear like man, if I were to share, like even a thought, or I had or maybe there was a Facebook exchange or something, maybe nothing happened, but potentially like a little emotional thing kind of happening where we were exchanging what seemed like pretty innocent. That could be you know, that could lead to a path. So just to bring that stuff up with a good friend, on a weekly basis over coffee, or whatever your thing is, but just some way to connect in a in a non religious way. But you just you’re transparent. But you know that this person is not going to like, you know, make your whole world come crashing in. Like, sadly, a lot of leaders sadly, a lot of leaders are in a situation where they’re trapped in that they’re they have all these secrets. And they can’t they feel like if I were to share this with one of my elders, man, forget it, they’re gonna fire me, I won’t have a job on it. Is that it out of that. And so that’s sad to me. So like, you’ve got to find an outlet. And maybe it’s a guy from another church. I mean, this is just a crazy thought he could be a Catholic Church, go to a priest would find out when they have confession and just go in there and say, Father, I’m actually a First Baptist music minister, and but I just got to, you know, confess, I have to confess I want to be healed, according to James, confess your sins and be healed. And anyway, that’s an extreme example, but you hear my heart.
Unknown Speaker 48:58 Oh, totally. And I mean, I think what what I appreciate about you, Paul, is that you realize that it could happen to you. And I realized that it could happen to me, and we have if we think it won’t, that’s when we’re in trouble. You know, we have to at least, like you said, not be naive enough to think that we would never do something stupid. So you have to put up guardrails and stuff like that. So I just thank you for that. And, man, I don’t really we’ve kind of covered all the questions I guess before we talk about your new album, which I’m really excited about. Do you have any last words for our listeners about longevity and ministry, and being fruitful for the long haul?
Unknown Speaker 49:40 Again, I go back to a marriage is like have the long term view just like have the the the eternal perspective every day and let that be your motivator? Keep that in your mind and your heart, the long term the legacy that all our decisions will affect our marriage will affect us. will affect our kids will affect potentially grandchildren will affect those in our inner circle or beyond. So you know what we believe and what we do matters. So that’s just a motivator to just continue to be in the word be inspired by Paul’s example and all the examples in Scripture, but you know how they were just faithful to the end where Paul said, I’ve fought the good fight, I’ve kept the faith, I finished the race, you know, one of my goals these days is I want to finish well, or if I meet someone in their 40s, or 50s, I’d shake your hand say, brother finish. Well, let’s, let’s finish well, by the grace of God, brother, let’s finish well. So that’s important to me, especially if you’ve invested so much time in your life in serving the Lord, and that’s the other thing be being excited about. Not only are we gods, if we never did a thing for God, we’re still his son and his daughter. And that’s our identity, okay? period. That’s our identity. We’re God’s kid. And we’re loved by him. And we don’t have to be Workaholics. We don’t have to, you know, we don’t have to, and yet the beauty of being invited to participate in the family business, so to speak, you know, like, I picked through this spiritual aluminum siding truck where it’s like God and sentence, you know, like, you know, around New Jersey here or New York, it’s like, these great Italian names like Fiorentino and sons, you know, the aluminum siding. And oftentimes, I think, man, I get to work with my father, we get to work alongside the Creator, Savior. I do get excited about that, what greater mission what greater exciting, the thing, even our daily conversations, not even just playing music, but saying hi to the person at the grocery store, or the the gas station attendant, but just every day is an opportunity where the Lord may use you to just be a listener, to be a healing listener to. And that might lead to an encouraging word, or Hey, would it be awkward if I just say a quick prayer for you, ma’am, or sir. And we get to be part of what God wants to do in people’s lives. Like, it’s either that or we just binge on Netflix all day. And we just bore ourselves, you know, with video games and entertainment until we die. And it’s like, that’s, we all know that after a week of that, it’s like, I feels like dying. No, it’s okay to go do that once in a while and entertain but I’m just saying the alternative is like get on God’s ship. And like be part of what he’s doing on the earth in our generation with the little time that we have or what flake out and be miserable and have no direction and no purpose and, and just entertaining yourself and stuff yourself with every food in an American become like Wally.
Unknown Speaker 52:59 Oh, man. long view. take the long view. Hey, go right. Alright, man, watch, man. No, I love it. I love your passion. It’s so cool. It’s so encouraging. Okay, I do want to give you a chance to talk about your new album. Tell me about it. Tell us about it. What’s it called? When will it release? And what what are you most excited about it?
Unknown Speaker 53:20 Thank you. We just mastered it yesterday. The title is probably your mercy. In fact, it is your mercy, which is one of the songs on the record, co written with Andy rosier from vertical church band. But what am I excited about? It’s just after 25 years in the same church, same neighborhood, same everything in Texas. This is such a new chapter for us, my wife and I and our family, just a turning of the page. And here we are in New York. And I haven’t for the first time haven’t been like full time at a church but just to show up at a church and in New York and just sit in the stand in the fourth row and look up at the screen and worship the Lord. And you know, that’s been really healthy for my soul. But you know, we’ve made a lot of friends in the last year and actually over the years as we’ve come to New York. So this album, basically represents a lot of local worship leaders who were a part of the recording, which was like live in the studio and found this big brick, an old building that they turned into a little studio in Brooklyn, really bad part of Brooklyn. And we have some worship pastors from like queens and Brooklyn and Bronx and Manhattan and it’s just cool. The diversity and the the simplicity there’s no synthesizers, it was very few overdubs, like note, instrumental overdubs. And we had a string section because I’ve been going to a church where they have you know, cello and viola and violin and it was fun to have David younger and some of the brilliants the brilliant guys were part of it. JOHN played piano Anyway, um, blah, blah, blah. Sorry. sounds
Unknown Speaker 55:03 really good. Actually, I didn’t know it was all live, I got to hear a couple of the tracks and it sounds fantastic. And well, we’ll have to well, they probably already heard one by now and then they’ll hear half of the track at the end. So thanks for sharing those pre releases with with our listeners. Yeah, I mean, I’m grateful. I’m just grateful when when will it release? And when can they? when can they buy it?
Unknown Speaker 55:29 first week in October. One of the things I was pondering is we’re just closing here, but just the title, your mercy, I just thought, I hate promoting albums. It’s like, it’s my least favorite part of doing a project because it’s like, really all the worship album is promoting the Lord. It’s promoting Jesus. And that sounds almost corny to say that but it’s true, right where we lead worship worship each week to try to, if you will promote or to point people’s attention and focus onto the Lord. And that’s what a live project or studio project this is kind of a hybrid. But the point being, I want to point people to the Lord and His mercy and His goodness and his faithfulness and not be like, Hey, come on, go buy the new ball. Because it’s like, yuck. So, I’ll do that for you. Thanks. I mean, if any listeners have thought I had was if you had like a cardboard thing you like you wrote something like your mercy and like, fill in the blank. Like, I was just thinking all of us have a testimony of like, God, your mercy, you know, freed me from drug addiction. You know, your mercy. Got me through chemotherapy, you know, your mercy, healed our marriage. Your mercy gave me hope. When I don’t know, you know, so many. It’d be interesting to see people like write out just a short one sentence testimony and like, hold up a sign and take a picture and go ahead and post that do hashtag Your mercy.
Unknown Speaker 56:53 That’s awesome. Let’s talk that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Paul will Paul will see it. So let’s do that. See? Yeah, that’s awesome. Man, Paul. Okay, so if people want to connect with you online, obviously lead worship.com is kind of the central hub where they can get all your training DVDs or albums and stuff. But where else can people find you? Facebook?
Unknown Speaker 57:14 Twitter, at Baba losh. Instagram at Paula lash. Sweet. Again. It’s a promotion stuff. I’m trying not to be a promoter. It’s such a fine line.
Unknown Speaker 57:23 Yeah, but but you know what? When you put something out you need people need to hear it to be blessed by it. So and we hear your heart so don’t Don’t worry. Thanks. So, man, thank you so much, Paul, for your time. And I know you’ve lost a lot of our listeners. Thanks, Alex.
Unknown Speaker 57:45 Some super helpful insights from Mr. Paul Bosch. Thank you so much, Paul, for taking the time to encourage us to have a long view of life and ministry. And to finish Well, for our California listeners. Paul will actually be in California on November 11, and 12th. He’s having a workshop in conjunction with the church collective. So that’s going to be November 11, and 12th. I’ll put a link in the show notes, you can register there. And I would highly encourage you to check out the workshop with Paul and the church collective it’s going to be great, and I will try to be there myself. So also to celebrate Paul’s new album, releasing October 1, I’m going to be sending you out with a new track from that album. So enjoy that. If this episode was helpful to you please consider forwarding it on to a friend or a pastor or someone that might be helped by it. Other than that, that’s it. God bless you guys and I will see you next time. See, y’all see y’all see, you see