How The Old Testament Informs New Testament Worship

 What do tabernacles, sacrifices, incense, and priests have to do with worship? Well, EVERYTHING! The worship practices of the Old Testament may seem like strange, confusing, and barbaric ways to worship, but when understood correctly we gain a deeper understanding of what God wants from us as worship leaders. Instead of looking to social media profiles, YouTube videos, and Mega-churches to learn what our ministries should look like, Zach Neese (author and worship pastor) is calling us back to seek God’s vision for worship as found in the Scriptures (both in the Old and New Testament). This is a fascinating, insightful, and powerful conversation, so be ready to have your mind and heart expanded!

Check out Zach’s new course and his book (below), and also sign-up for the Worship Leader Mentorship before Dec 31st to get your early-bird discount.

How To Worship A King (Course)
How To Worship A King (Book)
Zach Neese (Instagram)

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Alex Enfiedjian 00:10 Hey friend, welcome back to another episode of the worship ministry training podcast. My name is Alex Enfiedjian, your host, and I’m just stoked to spend another month learning and growing with you in this wonderful thing called worship leading and so good for you for taking time out of your schedule and setting your attention on something that’s going to help you grow. And I really do hope that this podcast has been helpful to you and help you grow. And if you want to say thanks, you can just leave us a review on iTunes or however you listen to this, just leave us a little review, say something nice, and we’ll be stoked about that. But we exist to help you excel musically, theologically and pastorelli. And so this episode is going to be a little bit more on the theological side. Because I think it’s really important that we as worship leaders have a strong understanding of what worship is at its essence. And yet, many of us never have gone to school, or we just got handed a guitar and said here, you’re in charge. And yet we’ve never educated ourselves. But thankfully, there are smart people out there like Zach niece, who you’ll hear from today, who has done a lot of research and a lot of biblical studies on worship from the Old Testament all the way through the new. And I think it’s important that we learn from the scriptures, what our worship is and what our worship ministry should be. Because I think a lot of us look to social media and YouTube and mega churches to learn what our ministry should be. And yet Zach’s calling us rightly, to look back to the Scriptures to see what worship and what ministry is all about. And surprisingly, the Old Testament really informs so much of what God requires in worship, and how that plays into our New Testament worship, how we should plan our services, and how we should think about leading people in worship of God. And so you’re going to get a lot out of this episode, I’m stoked about it. And you’ll hear in the episode that Zack has a book and a course called How to worship a king. And I highly commend those resources to you. And you can find the links for those in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s jump into this conversation with Zack nice. Hey, everybody, I am here with Zach nice, who is one of the campus pastors and worship leaders at Gateway church, that ginormous church out in big ol Texas. And he’s also the author of How to worship a king. So Zack, thank you for being on the podcast today. How you doing? I’m doing great. Thank you for having me, Alex. Dude, I’m stoked to chat with you. And you’re joining us all the way from the state of Alaska where you’re spending three months with your family and helping a church out there. Do you want to tell us a little bit about maybe tell us about that. But also tell us about yourself, your family and kind of what your normal ministry looks like?

Zach Neese 02:42 Oh, yeah, I’m a husband, Daddy, I’ve got six kids been leading worship for about 20 years pastor for 22 years. And somewhere along the way, I ended up as a trainer and equip er as well. So So I’ve written curriculum and taught Christ for the nations and at the king’s University. I love mentoring and raising up young worship leaders. And then I’ve had man the great honor and privilege of being able to teach worship leaders from something like 50 countries, which is really kind of caused me to have to take off my red, white and blue glasses, a worship from a kingdom culture perspective, you know. So right now, my church is, is just trying something cool. You know, we share resources with each other all the time. And so they’re sharing people they’re sharing me as a human resource with another church that’s in our network. So I’m here in Alaska and and just serving and and hoping to bring an infusion of worship to the team, some training and some mentoring development to the worship teams in the worship leaders here, but also, I’m doing a preaching series with the congregation. I think it’s gonna be great.

Alex Enfiedjian 03:49 Yeah, that’s awesome. And you’re definitely the right guy, they sent the right guy to do all of those things. Because I was telling you before we record that I spent like all of Saturday, you know, preparing for this interview, I watched like, probably three of your sermons and then I watched your entire brand new how to worship a king course like all in like one sitting. Yeah. I got my I got my Zack nice Phil, but like, dude, you really are the right guy for equipping that body with an understanding of worship, and you’re an excellent communicator, you’re an excellent preacher. And so I’m excited that your church was willing to give you up for a season to go bless another church. And, and that’s really rad. So so one of the things that when I was watching all these videos of you was I was just really, I mean, there was there was so much great content, of course, like your content was really good. But what struck me most was your passion. Like you seem like a man on a mission like a man on a mission for the glory of God. And so I’m just curious how you’d answer this question like, what is Zach neices mission on the earth? What do you want to see happen?

Zach Neese 04:53 I want to see the glory of God cover the earth like the waters covered the seas. I want to see Jesus Christ and throne on every continent, in every city and every neighborhood, in every home, and I want to see the transforming presence of God on earth, I want to, you know, I want I want Jesus to come back, and I want to go home. I’m living here is worship, as unto God. And I do love it here, but I love my god more. And when when I was saved, I was so radically saved. And I had such an impressive meeting with God, that it just ruined me. And I’m not interested in religion, and I’m not interested in ritual. And I’m just desperate for the presence of God. I’m a thirsty person.

Alex Enfiedjian 05:43 Yeah. It’s interesting that you quoted Habakkuk 214, which is that verse you just said that the glory of the Lord would cover the earth as the water covers the seas, and the knowledge of the glory of the Lord would do that. And, and I was thinking about that verse when I was watching your course, because one of the things you said is you said, I want to see a worshipping world. I want to see a worshiping world. And you kind of mentioned it here too, like Christ enthroned in every nation. Well, I would ask you, Zack, like, here we are in a world of darkness and despair, and like, just utter despondency. How do we get from where we are to a worshipping world? What does the church need? What do worship leaders need in order to wake up and really like, bring about the kingdom of God on the earth?

Zach Neese 06:28 Well, let me speak for America for a moment, okay, because I think America is the greatest exporting nation in the world, right? So we have to really think about what we’re exporting, and we have to decide what we want to export. And because regardless of where you are, across the earth, anyone that has an internet connection, or television or radio, is gleaning something from the way that we do it is gleaning something from our sound. So are we just going to export sound? Are we just going to export or songs? Are we just going to export sermons? Or are we going to really stand up and take our place? Because I think that we’re supposed to be a people who carries the presence of God, wherever we go, we’re supposed to be ambassadors, right? So what would happen if we exported the Spirit of God to Cambodia, what would happen if we exported the Spirit of God, we were so filled here that our cup was able to overflow. And we brought it to Japan. And we brought it to Russia, and we brought it to Saudi Arabia. And so I think that we have a challenge right now, because we have, we have a lot of gifts, and we have a lot of abilities. And we’ve marketed them. And I think we’re just slightly off the mark. I would love to see us market more than just our techniques and our music and our gifts. And I would love to see us really share the presence of the living God. But in order to do that, I think that we have to be a little less satisfied with what we have. And a little hungrier for what we don’t yet have.

Alex Enfiedjian 07:57 Yeah, that’s really interesting. You talk about us as being an exporting nation. And you’re right Nashville, and some gigantic churches have kind of exported this take of what worship is and what it’s supposed to look like and what it’s supposed to sound like. And I’ve actually, you know, I’ve been doing this online worship leader mentorship, and one of the first lessons I tell them is like, we should not take our cues for a successful worship ministry, from YouTube, or from Instagram and just look at what other churches are doing and say, I have to have those lights and these skinny jeans and this hat and these songs in order to be a successful worship ministry. But it’s really about something completely other than what we are. Not that those things are bad. Not that you know, what these other churches are doing is bad. I’m not saying that. But what you’re saying is, that’s not the marker. That’s not the thing that we should want other people to emulate. We shouldn’t let other nations look at us and want to emulate our style, but our substance, who we are and how we live and and so I guess I would ask a kind of a follow up question is like, what should we be aiming at? Like what is a successful worship ministry in your eyes? And and what should the church be aiming for?

Zach Neese 09:01 So Alex, first of all, it was really well said, Thank you. You remember the episode when David is trying to bring the Ark of the Covenant into Jerusalem for the first time. And he really he took his cues from the Philistines. The last time they seen the Ark of the Covenant moved was moved on a cart. And David made a very common mistake. He didn’t do his homework. He didn’t search the Scripture, and he didn’t search the heart of God. He was really passionate about having the presence of God among the people of God, which is what God’s passionate about. But he didn’t search out any of the prescribed ways that God says, this is how you move my presence. This is how you usher in my presence. This is how you enthrone my presence. So you know, he ended up putting on a cart, the cart stumbled, the oxen stumbled, it was reached out his hand because he’d had no fear of the Lord and, and he was struck down. The Bible says that David was upset and then suddenly he’s afraid. Like, he’s like, I can’t believe I set all this up for you, God, and then you kill one of my worship leaders. And then he realizes what he’s saying. Oh dear Lord, I can’t believe I’m judging God right now. So he goes back with fear and trembling any any searches, scripture any learns how to enthrone the presence of God and he does it again. Right. So I think this is a lot of what we done. A lot of what we do is we we search our near past, and we think that we’re not going to do it that way anymore. So so we reject the lessons from our near past. And we look at cultural lessons and cultural examples, like you’re talking about, and we incorporate those. And some of those are really useful tools. You know, I use those tools too. But what we don’t do is was surgeon would do is go to medical school, a surgeon would go to medical school, and he’d have a residency, he’d really learned his trade before he started plying his trade on somebody who’s sensitive, because he’d be dangerous, if you did. So by what I would love for worship leaders to do is to go back and search the word, to search the heart to search God’s ways. How does the Lord prescribe the enthroning? And the indwelling of his presence among people? Because I think he’s worth it? Well, excuse me, I got like the the Alaskan vertical. I don’t know what that is. It’s not COVID. Is it? Just kidding? No, he’s not going. I think you can catch it through screen anyway. So I think. But this is what I would like me, and I would I would like to see people who are more interested in in what you’re saying the substance than the optics?

Alex Enfiedjian 11:26 Mm hmm. Yeah. And what you’re saying is, in order to get to the substance, we need to go back and search the Scriptures. Right? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, a lot of what you’re teaching in your book, and in your new course, is at least your opinion of what, what it means to throw in the presence of God and the way that God prescribed it. And I’d love for you to talk about that a bit. I don’t want you to give away your whole course here. But you know, you spend a lot of time talking about the tabernacle model of worship, and how that should inform our worship planning and our worship leading, right. And you say, it’s not just an old testament model, it’s an eternal model. And it gives us an example or pattern of worship. So, you know, maybe, maybe give us the bird’s eye view and a couple highlights from what you think we should be taking away from those concepts.

Zach Neese 12:16 Yeah, so actually, in Hebrews, it says that it’s an eternal model. So when I, as a young worship leader began searching out, you know, I was I was working in this rural church, an old church with 150 people in it. How do I lead these people into your presence? God? Well, I, I confess that I have no idea what I’m doing. And the Lord started leading me to old paths, you know, old ways, go back to Biblical concepts. So let’s talk about the tabernacle for a second, okay, when we talk about the tabernacle, the word tabernacle has religious connotations to us, that it never had in the Scripture. So the word tabernacle in Hebrew actually means a tent. Right? That’s all it means. It doesn’t mean, you know, we think of the first tabernacle of Jubilee, like a church name or something like that. And that has some kind of connotation to us. But when you’re talking to the Hebrews, the ancient Hebrews, when you said tabernacle, they thought tent. And because they’re a bunch of nomads, they travel around and they stop, and they set up their tent, that’s where they live. So when they think 10, they think home. So when, when God says, I want you to set up a tabernacle for me, right in the midst of the people, what the Hebrews would think is, I want you to set up a place for me to live where you live, I want to live. And he kept saying over and over again, because I want to dwell with you, because I desire to dwell with you. So here’s a God who’s not looking for a religious edifice. And he’s not looking for ritual. He’s looking for a house right in the center of his people, because he wants to dwell with them, he wants to be close to them. He doesn’t want to be distant from his people, he wants to be near his people. So let’s, first of all, think about this tabernacle, not as a bunch of religious activity, which is how it’s been translated to us through the years. And so we go back, and we read that and we go, Oh, that’s Old Testament. That’s Old Testament. That’s Old Testament. That’s not the point. The point is not this is a bunch of religious activity. The point is, this is how, God the only true living God lives with the people that he loves. And this is how the people that God loves, live with him. All right, now look at it. Because when I walk into church, and I start leading worship, my desire aligns with God’s desire. I want him to dwell with his people. And I want his people to be able to dwell with him. And he’s already told us how to do that. But we just don’t read it, right? Yeah.

Alex Enfiedjian 14:36 No, it totally does. So like, the essence of what the ancient Israelites were after, in the tabernacle was the presence of God dwelling amongst the people of God. And is that what you would say should be the essence of worship in our current services? Yeah,

Zach Neese 14:54 I think so. His glory because he’s King because he’s got right So above all else, the Lord has his elevated, you know, in throne. But this is how this king lives with his people because he wants to live with his people. He’s not just a king, he’s a father, he wants to be with his people. And so we set up new liturgies all the time, you know, we try to figure out new ways to do it all the time. But he’s already it’s kind of like when, when you have a guest that comes over to your house, how do you make that guest feel at home? How do you host that guest, right, because you want them to stay, you want them to feel comfortable, you want to have communication with them, you want to you want to have communion with that person, you want to develop relationship. And this is what God’s doing is he’s telling the Israelites, I want you to host a house for me, so that we can sit down together so that we can commune together so that we can have relationship with one another. And so what he’s telling them is, how do you set up house for God, that’s really what he’s doing.

Alex Enfiedjian 15:51 And that’s what all those you know, boring measurements and the right that’s what it’s all about is like, we’re setting up the house of God, at least, that’s how the Israelites were prescribed to do it. It’s like we read it. And we’re like, this is so boring. But the Lord is just saying no, this, there’s there’s meaning behind each of these elements that I’m asking you to build for me, the lampstand. And you go through all this in your book and in your course, but like there’s meaning behind even the gate, right? And you say that Jesus is the gate, and we should come through the gates, which is through Christ through and we should be singing songs about the cross, we should be singing songs about Jesus and His sacrifice. And we should come through the gates with thanksgiving. That’s how we enter into the courtyard. And you kind of go through step by step through the different aspects of the tabernacle. I was actually, you know, I’m kind of going to go a little bit on a weird sideways rabbit trail. But hopefully it comes back around to make sense. But like, as you were talking about the tabernacle, and like how God prescribed worship in that time, I’ve actually been to the tabernacle in Israel, that not the real one, obviously, but they have like a replica set up in the desert of timna. I think it’s intended that it was such an eye opening experience for me to see the articles of worship and what they meant. And to see it from a New Testament perspective, that like, literally when we got into the Holy of Holies. And they explained, the sacrifice of atonement and all that, like it was almost like I was being born again, again, like I almost had like a second. It was so eye opening and enlightening and like just filled my heart with worship. But as you were talking about this ancient Tent of Meeting, because that’s what it was, right? It’s a tentative meeting, kind of like what you said earlier, as you were talking about that I was talking about the Israelites worshipping, right, and what what it looked like and felt like for them, and then I imagined, like, what would they say about our worship services today? Like if they came in watch us do what we do with our stages and our drums and our lights? Like, would they even get it at all? So I guess my question to us act is like, you have current modern day worship, and You have ancient Israelite worship, what is the essence of worship? What would you say is the essence of worship, and maybe we already talked about it? Hey, it’s Alex. Sorry for interrupting the interview, I just wanted to take a quick second to tell you that in February of 2021, I’m going to be taking a new set of worship leaders through our 10 week, mentorship program. And if you want to grow if you want to improve if you feel like your ministry is lacking vision or direction, or you’re not sure how to work on it, or it feels unorganized, or chaotic, or you’re not sure how to build great sets, or you’re not sure why your congregation isn’t engaging, and they’re just standing and staring at you. If you want to take your ministry to the next level, the mentorship program is for you. It’s a small handpicked group of worship leaders who meet with me on a weekly basis and have access to me pretty much 24 seven, to ask questions, do private coaching calls. And that’s besides the 10 weeks of curriculum, which is about 30 hours of teaching that you’re going to get from me live taught by me. You can ask questions receive answers on the spot. And so if you’re interested in being part of the mentorship, you can go to worship ministry training, comm slash mentor, worship ministry training, comm slash mentor and you can sign up today, there is an early bird special that gets cut off on December 31. So you got to get registered today. And you’ll get 10% off the admission costs of the mentorship. So go to worship Mr., slash mentor, and I would love to work with you. Alright, let’s get back into the interview. What is the essence of worship? What would you say is the essence of worship? And maybe we already talked about it.

Zach Neese 19:26 Now, I don’t know that we talked about it already when I. So again, I’m a word geek. So when I look at the essence of something, I want to go back to the heart of what God was saying. But I also want to go back to ancient languages. So the Hebrew word for worship just is Schuchat, means to bow down. And so in that culture, worshiping God was a full submission. Often you’d see in the scripture would say he worshiped and bowed down which meant he bowed down and bowed down. He bowed down with his heart and He bowed down with his body. It was a posture of the body that reflected the posture of the heart towards God. There was a posture of the life that reflected the posture of our hearts towards God. And for the Hebrew mind, that was a complete submission to the kingship of God. Right. So if you go into the New Testament, the word has more has more nuance than that word prosku Nao, it means to prostrate yourself, but it also means to adore. And it also means to kiss your hand towards God, which is an expression of worship. So I would say, in my opinion, the best definition of worship in the Bible is the greatest commandment I think Jesus talked about, and he lived it all the time. Love the Lord your God, with all of your heart, all of your mind, all of your soul, all of your strength. And what that does is it marries the concept of your affection, your love, with the concept of lordship, submission, love the Lord. And when when we lose one of those, if I if I love the Lord, but I’m not submitted to His Lordship, than I have empty emotionalism, right, if I’m obeying Him, but I don’t love him, I don’t adore him, then I have dead religion. So worship is the marriage of these two with the expression of every redeemed part of myself. I love my affections, the Lord, my submission with everything. I’ve got my heart, mind, soul, strength, my walk my paths, my actions, my imaginations, my affections and emotions, when every part of me begins to express love to the Lord, then I’m a worshipper. So I think worship is not something you perform. Worship is something you become out of which all other things flow. Hmm,

Alex Enfiedjian 21:41 that’s so huge. What a huge definition. And it reminded me of what Jesus said, If you love me, you will obey my commands, right? So they’re tied together, love and lordship are tied together. And john,

Zach Neese 21:54 you ever read john, like he can’t stop saying, read, read, read first, john, he cannot stop saying.

Alex Enfiedjian 22:02 But what you just described, and it was actually interesting, you pick the very surprising word you said, worship is something we become. And and I was like, wow. But what I think you’re saying is, worship is our whole life. And we’ve all heard that 1000 times, right. Especially we’re hopefully worship writers, I understand that. But that you say it a lot in your course. And probably in your book as well. I haven’t read your book, you say that, you know, worship has nothing to do with music. Obviously, there’s an aspect of worship that can be tied to music. But over and over in your course, you’re like, do you see how this has nothing to do with music right at all. And it’s really about, like you said, a life and a heart of submission and love, and you know, kissing your hand toward the Lord affection toward the Lord. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about because something You talk a lot about in the course, is the priesthood. So it’s like our life is a life submitted to the Lord. And then we have one hand reaching towards him, and another hand reaching towards the last, which kind of reminds me of your previous statement where you said, Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. So, yeah, tell us about the talk about the priesthood, because I think this is a pretty profound vision that you have for churches and for like the local congregation, really embracing this role.

Zach Neese 23:15 Yeah, there’s, there’s a couple of mega themes in the Bible that once you get the mega theme, the whole Bible begins to knit together in your heart, you know, one of them is worship, the Bible begins with worship and ends with worship, and all in between is the attempt to heal worship, we begin in the perfect relationship with God, we end in Revelation, perfect relationship with God, right. So the priesthood is this position that God designed to serve that to serve relationship between heaven and earth, right. And the very first priest in the Bible was a guy named Adam, the Bible says that God put him in the garden. And he told him to tend it and to keep it in the in the word tent. And the Bible is a weird word. It’s avod, or avoda. And it’s also used for Levitical ministry. So it’s like God put him in the garden. And he said, I want you to serve this in a Levitical manner, the lead lights for the priests, I want you to serve the garden like a priest would serve the garden. What does that mean for a guy, the very first man created, it means that he is supposed to live in a way that he relates to God, and he relates to God’s creation. And as long as Adam does that he relates to God maintains that relationship and maintains relationship with God’s creation. Everything on earth is paradise. It’s only when he sins and He lets go with the hand of God, that all of his other relationships go down the toilet, the earth begins to have turmoil, his relationship with his wife, that’s other people that he sees turmoil in that and even his relationship with himself. He has inner turmoil because of his guilt and because of his shame, all of our relationships are healed as long as we’re first relating with God, and all of our relationships are broken when we’re not. So that’s the priestly role. And the whole story of the Bible is God raising up a people, the Israelites to be priests to walk around the Earth in relationship with God and relationship with humanity, really, literally, to connect heaven and earth, one hand in the hand of God, one hand in the hand of humanity, and they are living bridges between the two. And of course, Israel failed every time in every way, right. So finally, God’s sins, which was his original plan, his The Bible says Jesus is the high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. That means there was never a time in the mind of God, when Jesus wasn’t going to be the priest. He was just teaching us that we needed Jesus to be the priest. It’s kind of like he invites us into the ministry to show us we’re not quite good enough to do it without his help. But it’s okay, I’ll give you help. Since his son Jesus, and this is exactly what Jesus does, everywhere he goes in everything he does, he walks around with one hand in the hand of God, and one hand reaching out to take the hand of humanity. And every time he connects that hand with humanity, somebody gets healed, something is transformed. Somebody gets revelation, he’s changing the world everywhere he goes, and the ultimate act of that bridging between heaven and earth is the cross him taking heaven and earth, and dragging them together by the force of his own perfect life and sacrifice. Hmm. Then he dies, he’s resurrected, he turns around to us. And he says, Now, through my power, don’t do it in your strength. You never could do it, through my power, do my anointing through my spirit, go out and be priest yourself, which is what’s going on? First, Peter, when Peter St. Working with priests were a royal priesthood, What’s he saying? He’s saying, All right, now Jesus has given you the ministry back again, through the power of the cross, I want you to go out and to take the hand of your Father God, and in the passion of God to reach out to the hand of your neighbors that hurting that dying, that sin and crusted world, to love them enough to take their hand. And because of what Jesus has done, pull them together, to the power of the crop

Alex Enfiedjian 27:07 that is so yeah, so profound and powerful. Oh my gosh, like it’s getting me amped up right now. Because like worship will change the world. Because when we embrace our role as priest, it goes back to the beginning of our conversation, right? Like you said, I want to see the whole earth, you know, know the Lord and like, be transformed, where the Lord is King in all places. Well, that means that we have to be that Ambassador, that priest, that grabs the hand of God, and then grabs the hand of the world and sees the world be transformed. And like I was reading this morning in, I think it was in Matthew, but Jesus was talking about john and he was like, tell john, that wherever I go, like people are getting healed and the blinder you know, getting their sight, and basically like, Heaven is coming to earth, wherever Jesus goes, as the ultimate priest, wherever Jesus goes, wherever the kingdom of God comes, people are healed. It’s almost like they’re experiencing what heaven is going to be like when it’s ultimately fulfilled, right? Like, he brought that healing to the people around him. And when we embrace our role as his ambassadors and as priests, we’re going to bring that healing to the nations around us. And so, yeah, worship, worship changes the world, man. Imagine, imagine a congregation that got that, huh. Imagine an American Christianity that got that and imagine what we what we would be exporting at that point. Hmm. As so amazing, Zach, and I thank you for all the hard work that you did linguistically, and many hours of study, I’m sure to come up with these concepts, and not that you came up with them. But you’ve maybe I should say, you uncovered the concepts from the scriptures. For us, some of your stole from giants who went before me, you know? Yeah. Well, so I’d love to just give you a chance to kind of tell people like about the course I think the cool thing that I saw in taking the course is it’s totally doable as a team. Like if I was a worship leader, I am a worship leader. But, but like, I could easily take my team through your course. Right? I could easily do one session a week, because they’re about 20 to 30 minutes, and we could discuss it and have a time of prayer. And like, it could be a really meaningful devotional tool to strengthen our teams. Is that kind of your heart behind the course? Is that why you made it?

Zach Neese 29:20 Oh, you nailed it, man. You nailed it. So that was the idea behind the book. And the idea behind the course is to take those concepts and to make them easier to absorb you know, how do we do this in a small group setting? That’s so many people asking us for it for such a long time. And yeah, I would love to see small groups use this pastors uses when pastors get worship, the church transforms, right. When worship pastors get worship, the church transforms when worship teams come together with an understanding the Bible Promises, the blessing of eternal life. When we walk together in unity, what happens as a team if we get it, what happens if we really begin to walk Unity of understanding and character if we really begin to be worship in unity with one another, the Bible promises a blessing there. And then it’s like concentric circles. You know, the pastor gets it, the worship pastor gets it, the team gets it. What happens if you have a congregation with 300 people, and the people in the congregation begin to get it? What happens if I don’t know about you, but sometimes I feel like that little dog from the Grinch, you know, he put the X ray on that dog’s back, and he just like, tied an antler to his head. And that little dog is pulling that silay up the mountain. Sometimes you feel like I’m the only good man, I’m the only guy with a heavy congregation, I can’t do it. But when you have a congregation with 300 people, and 10% of them, get it, or 20% of them, get it, or a third of them get it, when half of them begin to get it. You’re not pulling a sled anymore. You’re not trying to convince people to come into the presence of God, they’re worshiping before you ever come out to the platform, and you’re joining something that’s already happening in the body. And that’s powerful man. Because now the Bible says, the Bible never says I’m supposed to build the churches, Jesus’s church, he builds it is supposed to be in cooperation with his people building it, but it wears a pastor out when he has to be the one who perceives himself as being the one building and all the time. So these concepts and other people’s hands are potent, and people begin to build the church, which is powerful,

Alex Enfiedjian 31:27 huh? Yeah, so that’s rad. So where can people get this course? And like, where would they connect with you online? And then I’m gonna ask you one more question before we wrap it up. But where would you point people,

Zach Neese 31:39 I would, you can go if you want the series, it’s how to worship the king calm, it’s really easy to get the book if you’re interested in that. We also have audio book, and it’s in nine languages. And you can get that on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, whatever. Again, it’s how to worship a king. And you can connect with me on Instagram, if you want that nice one. We’re on Facebook, which I’m much worse at much less frequently, they’re answering my messages, honestly. Or, at Sac dot nice at Gateway staff calm. That’s my email.

Alex Enfiedjian 32:16 Brad. Awesome. Well, before we wrap it up, you have the years of a few 1000 worship leaders like what would you want to leave them with? Whether it’s from today’s conversation or something else that the Lord is putting on your heart?

Zach Neese 32:29 Hmm, I think I think we were put on this earth to do more than sing songs and run services. I think that if I get to the end of my life, and that’s what I’ve done, it will have been alive have lived. Maybe not even half, you know, I think that we there’s a there’s a greater glory and a greater calling upon us. And if you have that calling of ministry, if you have that calling to the priesthood, there’s a world and Jesus loves them. I’ve decided to pray crazy prayers. You know, this is weird. And it’s hard to believe that when we opened our last campus, I started walking around the campus in the neighborhood and praying God, how do you feel about these people? And he was so passionate about the people that lived in that neighborhood. He cared so deeply about them. And I knew that as as I was leading worship, I wasn’t just preparing people for sermons, I was helping to host the presence of a God who wants these sons and daughters, he cares about them. And so I started asking, What do you want me to ask for? And so he wanted me to ask that the presence of God would be so full in that house that he would reach into the streets and drag people in, you know, he wanted me to begin to ask that people would be transformed in the midst of worship before the sermon ever happened. He wanted me to ask for 5000 people on day one of our opening, which is, that’s insane. Everyone that I told that just looked to me like, like wall I’d like I was crazy. And I started walking around. And with my worship team, we began praying for these crazy things. And you know what? It happened? We had 5000 people day one, opening our campus. That’s never happened that I’ve ever heard of before. And the point is not that God wants 5000 a number 5000 people is that the world is full of people who do not know their father. And it’s not enough for me to sing songs. I’ve got to go after the children that the Father adores. And if my heart burns for that, it’ll bring me children. I guarantee it.

Alex Enfiedjian 34:27 It’s so good. Well, thank you, Zach, so much for sharing just all the things you’ve been learning and the things you’ve been teaching over the years. And I’ll definitely put all the links in the show notes for people to be able to get your course your book and just to connect with you online. But thank you for your time. And this has been a huge blessing. And it’s really inspired me and I’m like, Yes, let’s change the world worship leaders, world changers. Amen.

Zach Neese 34:49 I love it, Alex, man, it’s been so good to be here. And if you’d like to do it again, I love it a conversation. And God bless you. I like what you’re doing too. I feel like there’s a kindred spirit. You’re training you’re really equipping people to serve the Lord mentoring people. And and I don’t know that everyone that carries that that passion but I love it.

Alex Enfiedjian 35:07 Thanks, Zach. All right guys, that is it for today’s episode. I hope it was helpful to you. And again check out Zach’s book and his course you can find the links in the show notes or just google how to worship a king and you will find it. And again I want to encourage you if you want help with your worship ministry, I am here to help you. We are starting our next mentorship February 2021. And if you sign up before December 31, you will get 10% off so go ahead and sign up today at worship ministry training comm slash mentor or find the links in the show notes. I look forward to working with you and I will see you guys next month on the first of the month for another helpful Episode capless