Common Traits of the World’s Best Worship Leaders w/ Shalon Palmer (Worship Online)

Alex |

Welcome to the Worship Ministry Training Podcast, a monthly podcast for worship leaders who are serious about growing in their craft and calling. My name is Alex, fellow worship leader, super stoked you’re here. And if you’re a new listener, I’m going to encourage you to hit that subscribe button because every single month I’m gonna give you helpful practical guidance that you can immediately implement into your ministry. Hit that subscribe button, and then go back through the past nine years of episodes and binge listen your way to a healthier ministry. If you’re someone who is really serious about growing as a worship leader, I’m going to point you to the Worship Ministry Training Academy. What is the Academy? It’s an online training platform that will give you everything you need to build a thriving worship ministry. You’ll get ten in depth courses on topics like set building, team building, musical excellence, vocal techniques, and more. You’ll get live monthly training workshops on topics that are relevant to you. You’ll get exclusive expert interviews with some of the best worship leaders in the world. You’ll get done for you ministry admin systems and audition process, onboarding documents, team training materials, and even team discipleship materials.

Alex |

We will take care of you so you can focus on leading your team. If that sounds like something that would be of help to you, you can try the Worship Ministry Training Academy for just $1 by going to Worshipministrytraining.com. Sign up today for your $1 trial and I hope to see you inside of the academy. All right, let’s get into today’s episode. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Worship Industry Training Podcast. So happy to have you guys tuning in and academy members, I’m so happy you are here live with us. And I am joined in a second part episode with Shailen Palmer from Worship Online. And today we’re talking all about the common qualities of the world’s best worship leaders. Like, what do all the world’s most influential worship leaders have in common? And Shaylan has written a book about that called Worship Mentors, which you can actually get for free at Worship Mentorsbook.com, all you have to do is pay for shipping. So we’re going to talk with him about the contents of that book right now and just find out, like, what is it that makes these worship leaders so great, so impactful, so influential?

Alex |

And so let’s welcome Shailen to the podcast. Hello, friends.

Shalon Palmer |

Thank you for having me.

Alex |

Welcome back. I’m glad you’re here.

Shalon Palmer |

Okay, yeah, thanks.

Alex |

So you synthesize all this data from all of these interviews that you’ve had on your podcast. You talked to all these famous worship leaders, these influential worship leaders, these people making a big splash for the kingdom. And so I would love to know just kind of what are some of the big findings that you found as you synthesize all that data? What was the big takeaways from all of these different leaders lives and I know each of them had a specific key topic that they honed in on or whatever, but were there any big patterns overarching patterns that kind of surprised you? You’re like, wow, that stood out, that was consistent, that was constant across all the people. Were there anything like that?

Shalon Palmer |

Yeah, I’m so glad you asked that because it’s my favorite thing about the book, honestly, it’s the most interesting thing that you could come across when you do synthesize, like like, all the interviews like this. And so it’s like, when you get, like, the best advice from over 50 leaders and you find out, like, oh, they all have this thing in common, you know, it’s like, that’s really interesting that all of them are doing this thing. There’s got to be something to that. And I said this in our last interview, but, like, success leaves clues. And so, like, when you find that, like, the majority of the most successful people in a specific area are saying the same thing, like, you have literally, like, pure gold on your hands. Like oh, okay. And it’s something you definitely want to pay attention to if you’re trying to achieve something similar. So it’s also exciting when you come across these similar themes and advice and advice, too, because these are leaders from different cultures, and they’re all from different walks of life. They’re from all different backgrounds. They all do kind of different things. Like, some of them are just great at being a pastor at their church.

Shalon Palmer |

Some of them are incredible songwriters, written songs we sing every week. Some of them are, like, worship leaders traveling the world. Some of them are worship leaders. They’re all different. But whenever they’re all kind of saying, hey, this is the thing that got me to where I am, it’d say, oh, now that’s really interesting when they’re all saying that. And so I could just start and jump into my first one.

Alex |

And this.

Shalon Palmer |

Is my favorite one, and this is the one that kind of was staring me in the face the whole time. And it wasn’t until I finished the book afterwards and was like, man, like, man, what did they like? And then it just became so obvious, like, what this thing was. And I would also say that this is, like, my favorite because it had had the biggest impact in my life personally. It’s the power of authenticity and vulnerability. And so this is one that came up so often and that I actually kind of went really deep into this on my own. And what we found through this is that vulnerability is not just important, it is the key I’m saying the key to building, like, a high impact team, a worship team of any kind. Do you mind if I just like to go into vulnerability for a second, please? Okay, so, for example, one of our goals this last year at Worship Online was to create a more unified team culture. And so a lot of us on the team are remote and we can kind of feel very isolated from everyone else. And so I think it’s the area that we’ve struggled in at worship online the most in the last few years.

Shalon Palmer |

Culture isn’t really something that you think about in the beginning when you’re recording guitar tutorials by yourself in your kind of makeshift bedroom studio. It’s really the last thing on your mind. But now that we have a team of over 15 people, it kind of has recently become more painstakingly obvious how important this unified culture is. So I’ve spent, like during this time I spent countless hours researching culture and researching this is during the time of the book coming up, writing the book. And the more I learned about it, the more apparent that the things that we think are important to building a strong culture, they just really aren’t that important. Things like team nights, rehearsals, getting coffee together, and even going over our team values, those things just really aren’t the things that are going to make a drastic impact and increasing your team’s effectiveness and just building a better culture. Basically, we might be wondering, what does that have to do with being vulnerable? So essentially there are two things that any organization or team group needs to be highly effective, and that’s trust and cooperation. So these are basically the building blocks of a team that works as one.

Shalon Palmer |

So it doesn’t matter, like, how many team nights you have or how many times you drill in your team’s values and expectations. If you don’t have trust and cooperation, you’re never going to get to where you want to go. So basically, this is where I found myself last year. I was like, trust and cooperation. Got it. Now what? Now what do I do? Cool. So it led me to the question is, how do we create trust and cooperation? And so that question led me to discover that this is a marketing term, the Secret. The secret, which I really believe. It’s like I’m like, oh my God, I unlocked this thing. I found this thing. It’s like the secret to actually how to unlock the door of trust and cooperation and what has been doing it throughout history within the greatest organizations in the world. And it’s been staring me at the face in this book. It’s like the secret is doing something that goes against our every instinct and that’s sharing vulnerability. There’s a couple of really cool examples of this that I went through and kind of wanted to study and find. And so I found this really cool one of Pixar Studios.

Shalon Palmer |

So they’re probably the most successful animated film studio in history, and they’re making these box office smashes even when Disney can’t, and they’re struggling. Do you want to know what their secret to success is?

Alex |

Of course.

Shalon Palmer |

Well, every movie that they put out goes through a series of meetings that they call Brain Trusts, where they bring in all the directors, the producers, and even like, studio veterans to watch the latest versions of a movie. And everyone gives their honest feedback. So the thing about these meetings is they’re not for the faint of heart. It’s where the movie, the people, and its flaws are all just fully dissected. But it’s also where the movie starts to get better. So the Brain Trusts are like they say, it’s the most important thing they do, and it depends completely on candid feedback. And so the president of Pixar at Ed Catmull, I’m going to butcher this quote, but he basically says all of our movies suck at first. The Brain Trust is where we figure out why they suck, and it’s also where they start to not suck.

Alex |

Yes.

Shalon Palmer |

I think I got it. But that’s like, basically the quote. So it starts with being vulnerable. It builds trust and it’s contagious. So it’s not easily easy to accept open feedback that just rips you your creativity and your hard work apart, but it’s where things start to get better. And so another group that does this really well that I found is the Navy Seals. They have something similar that they call these AARs, like after action reviews, where they go over their problems and they kind of face all the uncomfortable questions head on, where it’s super raw and painful and it’s like filled with all this uncertainty and emotion. But they say it’s probably the most crucial thing that they do aside from the missions themselves. And so there’s just a ton of examples of organizations that have found that kind of where they intentionally create these awkward and painful interactions. But these are the interactions that generate these highly cohesive, trusting behaviors that’s needed for cooperation. And it’s what makes them successful. So vulnerability, it’s like, what exactly is vulnerability? I remember and I’m pulling up some notes right here because this is really great.

Shalon Palmer |

So if you’re listening to this, imagine this is how we describe vulnerability. Imagine you and a stranger ask each other two questions. So the first question is, what was the best gift you ever received and why? The second question is, is there something that you’ve dreamed of doing for a long time? Why haven’t you done it? So when you look at these two questions, they’re very similar. They both ask you to kind of share some personal information. But if you’re the one doing the questions and you’re in the experiment, you would notice two big differences. So when you start to answer the second question, you notice that your heart starts to race a little more and that you feel a little more uncomfortable. Why haven’t you achieved your dream? And the second thing that you’ll notice is you and the other person start to feel closer to each other. And this is actually around 24% closer compared to the first question. According to the study that they did at Harvard. So they found that like confessions, discomfort and authenticity break down these barriers between people and they tip them into deeper connections. So while the first question kind of generated information, the second one creates something more powerful.

Shalon Palmer |

But maybe you can guess what it is vulnerability. So we all kind of know that intuitively that vulnerability sparks some level of connection between people, but we may not realize how powerful it actually is, especially in a group setting. And right now I’m like googling because there’s this quote I want to read you. There’s this quote from this Dr. Jeff Poultry. He’s a professor at Harvard who was in charge of the study I just mentioned to you. So his quote, it says, vulnerability is not some touchy feely act, it’s simply sending a clear signal that you have a weakness. And if that vulnerability becomes a model for others, that’s when you can set aside insecurities and get to work. You can start to trust each other and help each other. On the other hand, if you never have the vulnerable moment, people will try to cover up their weaknesses and every little task becomes a place where insecurities manifest themselves. So basically, becoming vulnerable is less about you and more about those around you. He goes on to say, you can actually see the moment when people start to relax and trust. The group picks up on this idea and says, okay, this is the mode we’re going to be in and starts behaving according to the norm and that it’s okay to admit weaknesses and help each other.

Shalon Palmer |

I don’t know about you, but I can think of a number of times while leading a team where simply asking, anybody have any ideas? Sparked a conversation that just resulted in the end result of finding the perfect solution or creating something great. A simple statement that doesn’t seem like much, but it’s much more powerful than we realize. So I just want to bring this all home because I’ve gone on this research tangent. So as the leader, you’re the source of power and authority that others look to for their assurance and their direction. So when you ask, Anybody have any ideas? That opens up a whole new dynamic to the group. You’ve essentially said, I don’t know everything. I need you. And like that now it’s not the leader and the followers serving two separate functions. It’s this unified group working together as one. And now all the skills and experiences of the team are no longer being dampened by insecurity. Vulnerability dramatically increases a group’s willingness to cooperate. So often as leaders like myself included, we try to pretend that we have it all together and that we know everything. And too often when we do that, we lead these failing organizations and we create minimal results.

Shalon Palmer |

That’s why I always try to hire people for worship online that are smarter than me or have a skill set that I don’t. That way I can just get out of their way and let them solve problems. And that’s why our most important job as leaders is to facilitate this trust and cooperation so that the best people to solve problems can and are willing to solve them. I see too many leaders get in the way of their own organization’s progress by being too high and mighty and just show some vulnerability and admit that they need their team’s help. So what we can do is just be on the lookout for how great leaders express vulnerability. You’re going to see it in this book so many times. They’re going to mention it in passing and it’s not that obvious. But now that I’ve explained it to you, you’re going to see as you read the book that’s him being vulnerable or like, oh, they’re talking about vulnerability or transparency right now and it’s going to become so obvious. I first started to notice as I was going through the interviews and then when I was really diving into researching this, there was this cool example I found.

Shalon Palmer |

I noticed this baseball coach. It was at my niece’s baseball game starting his opening season. Speech was like, I was so nervous to talk to you today. And it’s great because you could physically see the reaction of the team as they smiled and just kind of relaxed their posture. Another cool one that I found is like Steve Jobs who’s like seemingly invulnerable, but he’s actually known for starting conversations with the phrase, here’s a dopey idea. And so another I was about to go somewhere. My brain works so fast. I’m in another world right now. I was going to say another really great way to build trust is simply just like admit that you are wrong. You can just girlfriend like she knows. Or that you may admit that you made a mistake or that you’re struggling in a specific area. No one ever said being vulnerable was easy. But remember, it’s less about you and more about the receiver. There’s much more at stake than your personal feelings. So the thing you’re sending with vulnerability is you have a role here and I need you. And it’s not natural. It’s not easy to be vulnerable, but don’t avoid it.

Shalon Palmer |

You can measure a team’s level of effectiveness literally by just evaluating their willingness to be vulnerable with each other. And that vulnerability leads to trust. And that trust leads to communication and being able to take more risks. I know I went off on a full tangent there, but I challenge everyone that’s listening to start flexing your vulnerability muscle. Then just watch as your team starts to be more open and trusting with each other. Even if you don’t lead a team, try with those around you and just watch you’ll get the same results. But it is important to say, however, if you are the leader, make sure that you’re vulnerable. First and often, no moment carries more weight than the moment that the leader signals vulnerability to the team. And not to mention there’s just like such a freedom and just like being your open and honest self. As I was talking, I was literally Googling because I wanted to pull this up too. It’s just more on the note of how everyone listening can take action on this because there’s these three questions that one of the leaders at Google who is head of like, their People Analytics, there are three questions he recommends that every leader should ask.

Shalon Palmer |

And so I didn’t want to mess them up. I wanted to read them exactly. But these are so great. And so the first question is, this is what you should ask your team. What is one thing that I do that you would like me to continue to do? Then question two, what is one thing that I don’t currently do frequently enough that you think I should do more? And then three is what do I do to make you more? What can I do to make you more effective? And I love how each of those questions signals vulnerability from the leader and it just makes it safe for the team members to do the same.

Alex |

That is so good. Yeah. When you research culture, team culture, the big key word is psychological safety. And everything that you’re sharing right now is creating a space of psychological safety where people feel safe expressing themselves and being honest with you because you are in a humble posture of like, I don’t have all the answers, I don’t know what I’m doing. We are a team. I need you. I’m not your boss. We’re collaborating together. And I think all of that is very powerful. Another thought that I had regarding the authenticity that you said was a key factor of these world’s best worship leaders was really owning and being comfortable with who God made you to be. My guess is there was some of that involved in these worship leaders as well, where all of their flaws, all of their pain, all of their vulnerability. Yes, but also just knowing who they are and being okay with who they are and not trying to be someone else and staying in the lane God had assigned to them. I bet you there’s something to that because I think a lot of us compare ourselves to one another and that’s a losing game.

Alex |

Like, God didn’t make me to be Shalen and he didn’t make you to be me. He made me to be me. And I run in my lane and you run in your lane in the world is better because we’re both running in our lane instead of trying to beat each other. Is there something there also? When you said authenticity was one of the key findings.

Shalon Palmer |

I would say most, I mean, probably all of them assuming without straight up just asking I think kind of what you’re saying is the authenticity of being yourself that goes into the courage, like having courage to do that and being yourself despite fear. And that’s what most of us that sit on the sidelines and aren’t out there, like, trying to achieve something and do something big, that’s what we deal with is fear because we’re afraid of being authentic and we’re afraid what everyone’s going to think of being authentic. It’s not safe. It doesn’t feel safe because all of your flaws are out there for everyone to judge and everyone to see. And so that authenticity is so, so important in the way you do that is through courage. And I would say every single one of the leaders in this book has had some level of courage to be able to put themselves out there, to be able to get on the stage, to get on, to play the game, if anything, to just get out there and just do it. And so authenticity is a huge, huge part of that.

Alex |

Yeah. Were there any other major threads that you saw across all of the worship leaders or maybe something that surprised you that was also common amongst the worship leaders? I think the vulnerability piece was surprising to you, but was there anything else?

Shalon Palmer |

I don’t know if surprising. There’s a couple of things that they all had in common. I can just touch it quick. Another big one was community. Every single leader that we spoke to was deeply involved in their home church communities, and most of them have been there for years. I think that even all the leaders we spoke to that were songwriters who wrote massive anthems and that were sung all over the world, like David from All Sons and Daughters or the Hill Song Crew, carry, Joe, Chris, Tomlin and Christian David, all of these guys. We found out that all the songs that they were written were written first to fill a need within their home church and their community first before that song ended up spreading across the world and we’re singing it in our churches, everywhere. That song was written because they really needed like they were going through something at their church community and they really wanted to pour this message over their home church community first. And so when they settled out to write songs, they weren’t just like, let’s write a song that’s going to blow up all over the world and we’re going to be famous.

Shalon Palmer |

It wasn’t that at all. It was like, oh, we’re writing this song for our community. And then it ended up just spreading from there because that message was potent and it happened to be what other church communities needed as well at the time. So I think that your community is your tribe, it’s your covering. It’s the place where people know you and they know how to serve you. Having that foundation is a big part of if you are going to do something big. Having that foundation of those people that know you and they know how to serve you is truly important, because you’re going to get out there and you’re going to get hit from all sides. When you’re on a big platform and you need that covering from your home community. And so floating around without that community, it’s really just a dangerous place to be.

Alex |

Yeah, that’s good. Real quick. So just to put that into an action point for the listeners and viewers, that means, one, be rooted in community, but two, seek to serve your community really well. And by serving your niche really well, god can use that same service to expand your influence beyond that niche, but focus on the people that God has placed right in front of you right now. That is kind of how I would apply what Shailyn just shared. But go ahead. What was the third finding that you found?

Shalon Palmer |

This one was interesting because it’s like none of the leaders in the book, none of them ever claimed to be the best singers or the best worship leaders or the best musicians. But what was actually kind of interesting is that a lot of them just outright just told us that they are terrible at most things. I’m not very good at these things, this thing, but this thing I’m really good at. And even more, it’s like they also just told us how they were even terrible at the thing that they do when they first got started. And so that allowed God to mold and use them. I know a lot of times it’s like we don’t get started or we don’t do anything because we think that we don’t have the skill set or we don’t have this or we don’t have that. But the leaders in this book, neither did they were very clear about like, oh, when I first started hiding songs, they were terrible. Everyone laughed at me, it was so bad. Or like, I remember the first time I did this on stage and it was a disaster or things like that, which really leaves no excuse for us.

Shalon Palmer |

We can’t use the excuse. So I don’t have this skill or this team or this money. It really came down to we hear this all the time, like God uses the willing. But it was just so true and obvious in this book. These people were willing to be used by God and that’s really all it took.

Alex |

Yeah, and I think when you talk about people stinking when they first get started, that is the truth for every human being everywhere. I always say there’s only one way to get better. And it involves two things, reps and evaluation. So you just keep doing it and you keep evaluating and you keep doing it and you keep evaluating and eventually, like Alex Harmozi says, eventually you do it so many times for so long that you just can’t suck anymore, where.

Shalon Palmer |

It’S just unreasonable for you to not have success. You just do something so much and so often it actually becomes pretty unreasonable that you wouldn’t get to where you want to go.

Alex |

Right? Exactly. That is exactly right. Any other things that stood out to you from this book? Or maybe your favorite gleaning? And maybe it was the vulnerability piece.

Shalon Palmer |

But yeah, I would definitely say that the vulnerability piece was my favorite because that had the most personal impact on me because I personally struggled with thinking that I had to have it all together. I thought that was how you had to be a leader. How are people going to look up to me if I’m not perfect? You know what I mean? And that was a huge gleaming into my life of like, oh, it actually is the opposite. It works better when I’m more open and more honest and vulnerable about my struggles. And that way people are willing to help. It’s all about people and community and having it all together, pretending you have it all together isolates you from that. I’m good on my own. That mindset takes you away from community and takes you away from people, which is where, like, the juice of life is like, it’s all about interactions with people and community and like, god’s people. That’s what life is. That’s what it’s all about. And like, that vulnerability and sharing our flaws is what makes us human. And when you don’t have those, you’re not human. And our humanity is like, everything.

Shalon Palmer |

That’s why we’re here on this earth, to be human with other humans. The more like, I’ve used this expression before, it’s like, free people, free people. And the more that you are free with expressing yourself and your vulnerability, the more it gives other people the permission to do the same. And then you being free. Frees other people. And so I think that’s just contagious. There’s kind of one more just off the top of my head that was really cool. And this is like a big one we want to talk about for a long time, but it was just like there are no overnight successes. It took a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of work to build the thing that they wanted to build. And I know that’s true in my life and for you and basically for everyone. But there’s some really good lessons about that in the book for anyone who’s discouraged on, like, oh, I’ve been doing this thing, but I’m not getting anywhere. Or like, I’ve been trying to be a worse player for two minutes and haven’t succeeded yet. That kind of thing. It’s not about you getting that thing.

Shalon Palmer |

It’s about the person you become on your way to that thing. So it’s about the heart that you develop, the character that you develop as you’re on your way to whatever success is for you. But the true. It’s about the journey. It’s about the journey when you can fall in. The most successful people that I know and in this book, they fell in love with the journey. They didn’t fall in love with the end result. They didn’t fall in love with one day having a million records sold or they didn’t fall in love with going on tour. They fell in love with the journey. The every day, the getting to wake up in the morning and write some songs and develop themselves and build their character and lead their teams and their communities, they fell in love with that part of it because that’s where longevity is. If you fall in love with that destination and it takes a long time sometimes to get to that destination, you’re going to give up. You’re not going to stick around for the long run because you’re not getting that reward. You’re not getting that thing. But when you fall in love with the journey and the character that you’re building, that’s when you’re in it every single day.

Shalon Palmer |

And there’s nothing that’s going to stop you from going after that thing. Nothing can stop you every day from waking up and worshiping God and just giving him everything you have because you love that. Not because you love getting adored by millions of people or you love one day writing songs or being a full time worship leader. It’s just that journey every day. You love that. You love that piece and you’ll do it every day. And that’s something really common with the most successful people, is like, they love the journey. They don’t love the destination.

Alex |

Dang everybody go back and listen to that three times, please, because that is so good. And just to summarize some of what you shared, we’ll talk about vulnerability real quick. And then I’ll also share just about that thing you just said about the journey. So in terms of vulnerability, I think that is key for everyone listening or watching, that we humble ourselves and not have all the answers. Because I’ve heard it said people respect your strengths, but they connect with your weaknesses. So if you want to take people on a journey, they have to feel connected to you. And so you have to roll up your sleeve and show your scars and be like, weak. The other thing too, in terms of the journey, I always say nothing great is built in less than ten years. And when you look at Phil Wickham or whatever, he’s just now getting nominated for Grammys. How long has the guy been touring? Dude, 20 years. 20 years. People like, maybe in the mainstream world are just now hearing the name Phil Wickham because he’s getting nominated for Grammys. Dude, the guy has been grinding for 20 years. So for us as worship leaders or worship pastors, let’s not look at our team and be like, oh, my gosh, it’s not where I want it to be.

Alex |

It’s like, hey, let’s play the long game here, okay? It’s week after week, and the question is, what are you doing every single week to improve your ministry and to get it to the place where you want it to go? Like you were talking about, the most successful people aren’t in love with the goal. They’re in love with the process. And I think of James Clear in his book Atomic Habits, he’s like, don’t chase after a goal. Just try to be faithful to the process or to the right habits that are going to you’re successful if you do the things that will get you to success one day. So don’t look at it like, oh, gosh. Because if you do the right things over and over and over and it’s the right things, it will eventually get you to the place that you’re trying to go. And so with our worship teams, I think we have to look at our teams and say, okay, what can I do this year to strengthen this one area of my team? And then next year, what can I do that year to strengthen that area of my team?

Alex |

And then you do that for six, seven, eight years, and all of a sudden your team is strong in all of the areas. Okay, yeah. Anyway, I don’t want to go into a whole teaching about it. No, it’s really good. So, Shaolin, I want to give you a chance to tell people where they can get the book, and then we’re going to move into our Q and A time for the academy members. But do you just have any final thoughts or encouragements for the worship leaders listening? Whether it’s about what makes great worship leaders or if it’s just something else that God has put on your heart to encourage worship leaders with?

Shalon Palmer |

Yeah, I think that I will say this. It’s like great leaders anywhere. Like worship leaders, they’re not born that they’re made. And that just means not just deciding every once in a while that you want to be a great this or a great that or achieve this thing or that. Today I feel like growing and doing something. It’s like great leaders, they do it every day. So the quality of your life is the quality of your habits. So great worship leaders are the ones that have the daily habits to grow and to become better. Kind of like you said, it’s like the process, they have a good process. So whether that’s like, spiritually or in your musical skill or in your leadership skill, all of that, because when you’re growing, basically what this all comes down to is when you’re growing, you have something to give to others. If you’re not growing, we all know, like, you’re dead. The Bible says if you’re not growing, you’re dead. And so being a leader of any kind is about giving to others. And so I meet so many leaders who are like, oh, I have 15 years of experience.

Shalon Palmer |

And I’m like, no, you have one year of experience repeated 15 times. You haven’t been growing, you haven’t been learning new things. You haven’t been taking risks. You don’t have anything to pour into other people. So great worship leaders are the ones that develop daily habits to grow in every area of their life. And then with that growth, they pour out into their teams and they pour out into their communities. I think that’s it.

Alex |

That’s good, dude. That’s so good. Okay, tell us where we can get the book. It’s free, everybody. He’s literally not charging you money except to ship it to your house.

Shalon Palmer |

So where can they get that worshipmentorsbook.com?

Alex |

Okay, I think you’re going to sell a few of those today.

Shalon Palmer |

Not too many will run out, and then it won’t be free anymore.

Alex |

Yeah. So you have a limited amount. Everybody, let’s get those while we can, and I’ll put the link in the show notes or underneath the YouTube video. But, Shailen, thanks for your time. And we’re going to move now into our live Q and A session with our academy members. So, academy members, hold tight. And everyone else, I will see you in the next episode. If you want to join the academy, I would love to see you inside. And you can be on these calls live and we can have your questions being answered by wisdom, truth droppers like Shaylin. All right, see you guys next time. Thanks for tuning in today. I hope this episode encouraged you, helped you, and pushed you forward in your ministry. If it helped you, can you take a second and help us by sending it to just one person that you think needs to hear this? And if you’re feeling extra nice, leave us a nice, shiny five star review on Apple podcast or like this video if you’re watching it on YouTube. If you want to discuss this episode or ask questions, we do have a free section in our academy where you can post comments and questions and chat with other worship leaders just like you and also sample some of our courses.

Alex |

And you can go to Worshipindustrytraining.com Free to join us inside the free portion of the academy. If you’re looking for more, check out the full access academy. You can get 15 days for just $1 to start and try things out again. You can try all of it for 15 days for just $1 by going to Worship Ministrytraining.com. Hope to see you inside the academy, or else I’ll see you next month for another helpful episode.